The Exchanges

Q You've spoken to me before about the importance of relationships with regards to raising capital. A lot of the time I hear about kind of the commoditization of capital today. What's your thoughts on the importance of a relationship still today in the fundraising process?

A Yeah, I mean, I, I sort of disagree with the idea of the commoditization of capital. You know, having run a company for eight and a half years at this point, the real Quality of relationships that you have with investors is, is huge, and I don't think we would be around today as a business if it wasn't for the relationships that, that we had. You know, I, I think, sure, there are lots of different places to raise money from, and if, if money is all you're looking for, agreed, it can be a commodity, and there's lots of capital on the sidelines that is, you know, that, that people can access. I think where investors can add value is when things are not going so great, where there needs to be a change in strategy, where things are going sideways for a And that's where the relationship really starts to matter, because that's where, if you have that trusted relationship, you can draw on them in those times of need, which every company goes through. If you treat them just like a commodity, just like capital, then when times get tough, there's really no reason for them to trust you, back you, or stick around. And so, you know, I'm a big believer that you need to build these relationships over time, and that not only, I think, does it allow you to go faster when things are good, but also helps you sort of Keep things together when things are a little rough, and we've certainly had that…

AI assessment note: “the real Quality of relationships that you have with investors is, is huge”

Q Can I ask, what is opinionated culture in the way that we often hear kind of teamwork and collaboration, kindness, and all these very altruistic, lovely things, but what's an opinionated culture? Is it kind of, I don't know, I'm struggling actually, what would be an example which is actually rather contrarian or particularly controversial?

A Yeah. And I don't think it necessarily has to be controversial or bad. I just think it has to, you have to take a stance on something. I think if you have a generic culture, you know, you don't really have much of a culture. You just have sort of, uh, you know, it becomes open to interpretation. And so when I say opinionated culture, I mean, you know, sort of taking a stand on what you believe in and maybe pushing to one extreme or to one, you know, to in one direction where your company has a feel to it. And people say, yes, that, that feels like we pay. It feels like our culture. And so I think for us, One of the examples is one of our values is invest in relationships. And so, you know, what that means to me is we are big on building relationships externally with investors, internally with employees, and we take sort of big steps to promote that. We do a lot of company events. We spend a lot of time with customers. We spend a lot of, we bring investors in, we buy lunch for the company every single day so that they can come together, sit and invest in those relationships. And so it can't just be words on a page or, you know, a couple of feel good ideas has to be some very specific opinions about The way your company should behave and how that accomplishes your mission as a company. And then you have to put sort of a lot of wood behind that arrow and make sure that it actually…

AI assessment note: “when I say opinionated culture, I mean, you know, sort of taking a stand”

Q Talking of kind of the transforming and the scaling of companies, you said to me before that scaling is not done overnight, and you've had some pivots. I read that one pivot of yours lost 70% of your revenue overnight. So talk to me, what are the challenges around the pivot itself? What's the mentality also going into it, and how can one navigate them?

A We in Silicon Valley use this term pivot as this catch-all Friendly term to just say, Hey, we're going to change our business strategy. But what it actually means is that you've failed as an entrepreneur. You know, you've, your strategy, your mission, your objective, your product was wrong and that you have to, you now have to do something entirely new and take an entirely new bet. And that's an incredibly painful, disruptive thing to do. You know, there's issues with investors and your board, you know, Hey, we were doing X and we've been telling you that X is great for years and now we're going to do Y and we were totally wrong on X and here's why you should believe us on Y. And so, You know, that's a challenging, tough conversation, and you have to have those relationships and that trust to be able to weather that type of a change. So I think first is kind of the board. You know, second is how do you manage your, you know, your internal team through that change? And it's the same problem. For years, you've been talking about doing X and, you know, how great X is and why X is going to change the world and why you're going to build a great business on X. And then all of a sudden you're doing something completely different. And, you know, were you wrong when you said all those things? Were you lying? Were you stupid? Were you incompetent? Um, and so you have to really, I think, …

AI assessment note: “you have to really, I think, be authentic with your team and talk about why”

Q Can I ask, is it possible for culture to evolve and transform with the scaling of a business? Is that possible?

A Absolutely. I think it needs to evolve. I think, you know, you want to have principles that guide that culture and ideally those principles or those values really shouldn't change very often. You know, they should align with the type of company you're trying to build. But, you know, as companies scale, there's culture becomes a challenge, you know, and culture has to change and evolve and has to be policed and revisited. And I think we're seeing that today with some larger tech companies, you know, you could look at Uber and some of the challenges they're having. I don't think they sat down in the early days and says, Hey, we want our culture to be like X, Y, Z. But as they've grown and scaled as a company, they need to think about how that culture sort of plays out and what changes they need to make to do that. I think another great example is Facebook, such a, such a core part of Facebook's culture was move fast and break things for a long time. And now they've actually tweaked that. I think the new expression they use is, you know, move fast and ship love or something to that effect, which really is, you know, it's a tweak. They're at their scale. They really can't be breaking things. And so they had to sort of tweak some of their culture to kind of deal with the realities of scale. So I do think companies have to evolve and change. I do think the best ones, though, take som…

AI assessment note: “Absolutely. I think it needs to evolve.”

Q in particular that I really want to pick up on, and one's kind of the communication to the board with regards to the pivot, because I want to talk about how you've managed a growing board from kind of the initial one or two close advisors to now a sixty five million dollars plus in funding and a much larger board. How have you looked to manage that growing board?

A Sure. I mean, I think it comes back to those relationships, you know, and taking the time to invest in relationships pays dividends. You know, you, obviously my early stage investors I've worked with for eight or nine years at this point, they know me really well. They know the company really well. And, you know, we sort of have that relationship built out. It's really our newer investors where we make sure to take time educating them about the business, sharing things, showing, again, demonstrating what we're going to do, actually doing it, and then giving them sort of constant, candid, open feedback. And so that's been, I think, the critical skill set in building that board. I think it's also important to, as you grow as an entrepreneur, to not be the sole point of contact with your board. You know, you have a management team, you have a CFO. Making sure that you're bringing your team into those board meetings, helping your team develop those relationships with those board members is just super important. That's what allows us to, to scale. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs feel like they need to be the sole point of contact with the board. And that may work at an early stage with one, two, or three board members. But when, you know, we have a, an eight person board, you know, there's just no way to really kind of scalably maintain all those relationships at the level of dep…

AI assessment note: “as you grow as an entrepreneur, to not be the sole point of contact”

Q You've spoken to me before about the importance of relationships with regards to raising capital. A lot of the time I hear about kind of the commoditization of capital today. What's your thoughts on the importance of a relationship still today in the fundraising process?

A Yeah, I mean, I, I sort of disagree with the idea of the commoditization of capital. You know, having run a company for eight and a half years at this point, the real Quality of relationships that you have with investors is, is huge, and I don't think we would be around today as a business if it wasn't for the relationships that, that we had. You know, I, I think, sure, there are lots of different places to raise money from, and if, if money is all you're looking for, agreed, it can be a commodity, and there's lots of capital on the sidelines that is, you know, that, that people can access. I think where investors can add value is when things are not going so great, where there needs to be a change in strategy, where things are going sideways for a And that's where the relationship really starts to matter, because that's where, if you have that trusted relationship, you can draw on them in those times of need, which every company goes through. If you treat them just like a commodity, just like capital, then when times get tough, there's really no reason for them to trust you, back you, or stick around. And so, you know, I'm a big believer that you need to build these relationships over time, and that not only, I think, does it allow you to go faster when things are good, but also helps you sort of Keep things together when things are a little rough, and we've certainly had that…

AI assessment note: “the real Quality of relationships that you have with investors is, is huge”

Q Can I ask, what is opinionated culture in the way that we often hear kind of teamwork and collaboration, kindness, and all these very altruistic, lovely things, but what's an opinionated culture? Is it kind of, I don't know, I'm struggling actually, what would be an example which is actually rather contrarian or particularly controversial?

A Yeah. And I don't think it necessarily has to be controversial or bad. I just think it has to, you have to take a stance on something. I think if you have a generic culture, you know, you don't really have much of a culture. You just have sort of, uh, you know, it becomes open to interpretation. And so when I say opinionated culture, I mean, you know, sort of taking a stand on what you believe in and maybe pushing to one extreme or to one, you know, to in one direction where your company has a feel to it. And people say, yes, that, that feels like we pay. It feels like our culture. And so I think for us, One of the examples is one of our values is invest in relationships. And so, you know, what that means to me is we are big on building relationships externally with investors, internally with employees, and we take sort of big steps to promote that. We do a lot of company events. We spend a lot of time with customers. We spend a lot of, we bring investors in, we buy lunch for the company every single day so that they can come together, sit and invest in those relationships. And so it can't just be words on a page or, you know, a couple of feel good ideas has to be some very specific opinions about The way your company should behave and how that accomplishes your mission as a company. And then you have to put sort of a lot of wood behind that arrow and make sure that it actually…

AI assessment note: “taking a stand on what you believe in and maybe pushing to one extreme”

Q Can I ask, is it possible for culture to evolve and transform with the scaling of a business? Is that possible?

A Absolutely. I think it needs to evolve. I think, you know, you want to have principles that guide that culture and ideally those principles or those values really shouldn't change very often. You know, they should align with the type of company you're trying to build. But, you know, as companies scale, there's culture becomes a challenge, you know, and culture has to change and evolve and has to be policed and revisited. And I think we're seeing that today with some larger tech companies, you know, you could look at Uber and some of the challenges they're having. I don't think they sat down in the early days and says, Hey, we want our culture to be like X, Y, Z. But as they've grown and scaled as a company, they need to think about how that culture sort of plays out and what changes they need to make to do that. I think another great example is Facebook, such a, such a core part of Facebook's culture was move fast and break things for a long time. And now they've actually tweaked that. I think the new expression they use is, you know, move fast and ship love or something to that effect, which really is, you know, it's a tweak. They're at their scale. They really can't be breaking things. And so they had to sort of tweak some of their culture to kind of deal with the realities of scale. So I do think companies have to evolve and change. I do think the best ones, though, take som…

AI assessment note: “Absolutely. I think it needs to evolve.”

Q Talking of kind of the transforming and the scaling of companies, you said to me before that scaling is not done overnight, and you've had some pivots. I read that one pivot of yours lost 70% of your revenue overnight. So talk to me, what are the challenges around the pivot itself? What's the mentality also going into it, and how can one navigate them?

A We in Silicon Valley use this term pivot as this catch-all Friendly term to just say, Hey, we're going to change our business strategy. But what it actually means is that you've failed as an entrepreneur. You know, you've, your strategy, your mission, your objective, your product was wrong and that you have to, you now have to do something entirely new and take an entirely new bet. And that's an incredibly painful, disruptive thing to do. You know, there's issues with investors and your board, you know, Hey, we were doing X and we've been telling you that X is great for years and now we're going to do Y and we were totally wrong on X and here's why you should believe us on Y. And so, You know, that's a challenging, tough conversation, and you have to have those relationships and that trust to be able to weather that type of a change. So I think first is kind of the board. You know, second is how do you manage your, you know, your internal team through that change? And it's the same problem. For years, you've been talking about doing X and, you know, how great X is and why X is going to change the world and why you're going to build a great business on X. And then all of a sudden you're doing something completely different. And, you know, were you wrong when you said all those things? Were you lying? Were you stupid? Were you incompetent? Um, and so you have to really, I think, …

AI assessment note: “what it actually means is that you've failed as an entrepreneur.”

Q in particular that I really want to pick up on, and one's kind of the communication to the board with regards to the pivot, because I want to talk about how you've managed a growing board from kind of the initial one or two close advisors to now a sixty five million dollars plus in funding and a much larger board. How have you looked to manage that growing board?

A Sure. I mean, I think it comes back to those relationships, you know, and taking the time to invest in relationships pays dividends. You know, you, obviously my early stage investors I've worked with for eight or nine years at this point, they know me really well. They know the company really well. And, you know, we sort of have that relationship built out. It's really our newer investors where we make sure to take time educating them about the business, sharing things, showing, again, demonstrating what we're going to do, actually doing it, and then giving them sort of constant, candid, open feedback. And so that's been, I think, the critical skill set in building that board. I think it's also important to, as you grow as an entrepreneur, to not be the sole point of contact with your board. You know, you have a management team, you have a CFO. Making sure that you're bringing your team into those board meetings, helping your team develop those relationships with those board members is just super important. That's what allows us to, to scale. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs feel like they need to be the sole point of contact with the board. And that may work at an early stage with one, two, or three board members. But when, you know, we have a, an eight person board, you know, there's just no way to really kind of scalably maintain all those relationships at the level of dep…

AI assessment note: “to not be the sole point of contact with your board. You know, you have a management team”

Q So, I have a lot of founders come to me and say, I understand the importance of relationships, but how do you build them? I'd love to hear your take on kind of moving from the East Coast to the West Coast, and how that kind of relationship building process looked like for you with investors, and how you really look to kind of build that trusted relationship.

A Yeah, I personally think that relationships with investors is built on, you know, you saying what you're going to do, and then a company showing results against that. And then being incredibly honest when things don't go well and explaining why and what you're going to do differently. And I think if you do that enough times you build trust, you know, the investor understands and believes that when you say something, you say, you're going to be something that you'll do it. And then if you, if you're not successful for some reason that you'll be really candid and open and honest about what doesn't go well. And you know, investors are, they are, they're mature. You know, they, they don't, they see a lot of different companies. Not all of them are just up and to the right without any issues. They see issues all the time. And so I, they're, they're used to seeing companies struggle and have to pivot and have to change and have to make adjustments. And they, I think what sets apart great entrepreneurs from not so great entrepreneurs are the ones that can be honest and candid about those challenges and enlist their investors help and keep them in the loop on that. I think that builds a very trusted relationship. And, you know, for us, I think there's kind of one investor in particular I'll call out who's Peter Bell. So Peter is a venture capitalist at Highland Capital Partners. I had …

AI assessment note: “relationships with investors is built on, you know, you saying what you're going to do”

Q So, I have a lot of founders come to me and say, I understand the importance of relationships, but how do you build them? I'd love to hear your take on kind of moving from the East Coast to the West Coast, and how that kind of relationship building process looked like for you with investors, and how you really look to kind of build that trusted relationship.

A Yeah, I personally think that relationships with investors is built on, you know, you saying what you're going to do, and then a company showing results against that. And then being incredibly honest when things don't go well and explaining why and what you're going to do differently. And I think if you do that enough times you build trust, you know, the investor understands and believes that when you say something, you say, you're going to be something that you'll do it. And then if you, if you're not successful for some reason that you'll be really candid and open and honest about what doesn't go well. And you know, investors are, they are, they're mature. You know, they, they don't, they see a lot of different companies. Not all of them are just up and to the right without any issues. They see issues all the time. And so I, they're, they're used to seeing companies struggle and have to pivot and have to change and have to make adjustments. And they, I think what sets apart great entrepreneurs from not so great entrepreneurs are the ones that can be honest and candid about those challenges and enlist their investors help and keep them in the loop on that. I think that builds a very trusted relationship. And, you know, for us, I think there's kind of one investor in particular I'll call out who's Peter Bell. So Peter is a venture capitalist at Highland Capital Partners. I had …

AI assessment note: “relationships with investors is built on, you know, you saying what you're going to do”