The Exchanges

Q Now, I'd love to get started today by discussing you and how you came to Found 21, and also with the, the sidecar of also being at Andreessen. So how did that all come about, and what's the kind of quick bio of you?

A Yeah, sure. So I'm, uh, I'm a Stanford lifer. Uh, I got my BS, MS, and PhD, uh, Intellectual engineering and MS in chemical engineering, all from Stanford. And I taught computer science and statistics at Stanford for a few years. And I started a genomics company, uh, called Council, which was funded by, uh, Peter Thiel and Founders Fund and David Drummond and whatnot. And that was in, uh, 2008. Funding came in like 20 11. So, you know, we had a long period of, um, you know, effectively bootstrapping it before, uh, before we got VC. Um, and so that was my first company. And, uh, so, uh, my brother's running it. It's doing quite well. And, uh, so then after that, in 2013, um, I, I did three things. So, uh, first, I helped, uh, set up 21, and at the time, in 2013, I was, uh, just in a part-time role as chairman, so I wasn't full-time operationally involved with the company, but I helped set it up initially. Second, I taught a MOOC course, which, uh, you know, was at startup.stanford.edu, it was also on Coursera, and, uh, that eventually reached more than 250,000 students worldwide, so it was pretty popular. Unbelievable. So popular course, um, and basically I think is because it, it fused, uh, technology and philosophy. So it, it talked about the theory of why you want to do a startup and whether you want to do a startup and various difficulties that arise, all the things that I w…

AI assessment note: “first, I helped set up 21, and at the time in 2013, I was”

Q Now, I'd love to get started today by discussing you and how you came to Found 21, and also with the, the sidecar of also being at Andreessen. So how did that all come about, and what's the kind of quick bio of you?

A Yeah, sure. So I'm, uh, I'm a Stanford lifer. Uh, I got my BS, MS, and PhD, uh, Intellectual engineering and MS in chemical engineering, all from Stanford. And I taught computer science and statistics at Stanford for a few years. And I started a genomics company, uh, called Council, which was funded by, uh, Peter Thiel and Founders Fund and David Drummond and whatnot. And that was in, uh, 2008. Funding came in like 20 11. So, you know, we had a long period of, um, you know, effectively bootstrapping it before, uh, before we got VC. Um, and so that was my first company. And, uh, so, uh, my brother's running it. It's doing quite well. And, uh, so then after that, in 2013, um, I, I did three things. So, uh, first, I helped, uh, set up 21, and at the time, in 2013, I was, uh, just in a part-time role as chairman, so I wasn't full-time operationally involved with the company, but I helped set it up initially. Second, I taught a MOOC course, which, uh, you know, was at startup.stanford.edu, it was also on Coursera, and, uh, that eventually reached more than 250,000 students worldwide, so it was pretty popular. Unbelievable. So popular course, um, and basically I think is because it, it fused, uh, technology and philosophy. So it, it talked about the theory of why you want to do a startup and whether you want to do a startup and various difficulties that arise, all the things that I w…

AI assessment note: “So then after that, in 2013, um, I, I did three things. So, uh, first, I helped, uh, set up 21”

Q Do you really think that's the solution, then, in terms of carving out, uh, allocations for early adopters, or do you prefer the radical overhaul of potentially an archaic regulatory system?

A So, I'm definitely on, on the first, and the reason I say that is, um, It's hard to convince people of what is unseen. They'll just hear radical over all the regulatory system, and then they're just going to resist it. They're going to say, oh, you're very dangerous, et cetera. I think that everything depends upon being able to opt out and build parallel systems where some of them are going to be failures, but some of them are going to be successes, and the successes, you YouTube them, and you videotape them, and you show that it wasn't so bad, and you broadcast that to the world, and that's what gets you the political capital to start flipping other cities. Let me give you a concrete example. So right now you have, um, so it's 2016 today, right? So Austin, Texas has chosen to take itself back into the past, into 2012 or what have you, into a pre-ride sharing era, ok? But Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania has chosen to go into the future, into 2020 or 20 21, um, and allowing self-driving cars, right? And, um, Pittsburgh is running an experiment, and that experiment is going to be highly scrutinized, and there's going to be, uh, you know, a lot of people who have high stakes in making sure it's a success. And if it's done right, And if it's videotaped and if folks can travel to that region and they can see that, Hey, actually come on in, the water's warm. It's actually not so bad. In f…

AI assessment note: “I'm definitely on, on the first, and the reason I say that is”

Q Do you really think that's the solution, then, in terms of carving out, uh, allocations for early adopters, or do you prefer the radical overhaul of potentially an archaic regulatory system?

A So, I'm definitely on, on the first, and the reason I say that is, um, It's hard to convince people of what is unseen. They'll just hear radical over all the regulatory system, and then they're just going to resist it. They're going to say, oh, you're very dangerous, et cetera. I think that everything depends upon being able to opt out and build parallel systems where some of them are going to be failures, but some of them are going to be successes, and the successes, you YouTube them, and you videotape them, and you show that it wasn't so bad, and you broadcast that to the world, and that's what gets you the political capital to start flipping other cities. Let me give you a concrete example. So right now you have, um, so it's 2016 today, right? So Austin, Texas has chosen to take itself back into the past, into 2012 or what have you, into a pre-ride sharing era, ok? But Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania has chosen to go into the future, into 2020 or 20 21, um, and allowing self-driving cars, right? And, um, Pittsburgh is running an experiment, and that experiment is going to be highly scrutinized, and there's going to be, uh, you know, a lot of people who have high stakes in making sure it's a success. And if it's done right, And if it's videotaped and if folks can travel to that region and they can see that, Hey, actually come on in, the water's warm. It's actually not so bad. In f…

AI assessment note: “So, I'm definitely on, on the first, and the reason I say that is”

Q And three really interesting questions that kind of come from that unpacking. And the first is then to what extent you agree with the archetypal notion of kind of Silicon Valley marketplaces like Uber and Airbnb have moved fast and break things. Do you think that is the right approach?

A Yes. You don't get plane flights. You don't get, you don't get aviation without test pilots. You know, we, we have to have early adopters. If we allow people to do bungee jumping and skydiving, if we allow people to sign up for the military and, you know, go in and like die overseas, you know, there should also be room for people who take risks to advance technology. If you go back and, you know, there's this thing called the CRC handbook of chemistry and physics. If you go and read that, um, and this is basically what there was before you had like, you know, Wikipedia and online encyclopedias of chemistry. If you go back and look at the, you know, CRC handbook of chemistry and physics, it will have for some of the really old compounds, it will have like a smell and a taste. And for the newer compounds, it doesn't have that, um, because all the way back in the past, there was some chemist who, you know, smelled cyanide, and the last thing he did was he took a hit for the team, and he scrawled down almonds, and then he died. And, uh, you know, he took a hit for the team to advance science, right? And, you know, I'm speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek, obviously, but the point is that there was a time when chemists would actually, like, smell and taste things, and that, from that library, we have, you know, the, the compounds where, You know, you build all the, all the flavors and …

AI assessment note: “Yes. You don't get plane flights. You don't get, you don't get aviation without test pilots.”

Q What's your favorite blog or newsletter? I'd love to hear your reading habits in terms of kind of industry knowledge and insider reading.

A So, I read a lot of old books, and I don't actually read, I read a lot of old books, and I read a lot of technical journals. Um, obviously, you know, you sort of keep up with tech news, uh, In your peripheral vision by simply looking at the Twitter feed of, uh, of folks, right? But I'm less focused on the contemporaneous stuff and more focused on things which are true, yet not widely known. Um, so let me give you one example, like, uh, you know, Brian Chesky at Airbnb is fond of, uh, you know, a bunch of articles written in the late 1800, early 1900 about these, um, I forgot what they were called. I think they're like not flop houses, but basically Room sharing was just much more popular around the turn of the century, um, than it was in the, you know, mid-nineteen hundreds. Um, like, 1950, you had the nuclear family, but in 1900, you had lots of people who were moving to cities, and they do room sharing. And, um, so he could see sort of, uh, societal solutions, um, for sharing economy type things from a hundred years ago that he could modernize and transplant and use for today. And I think that that's a very useful thing to read books about societal arrangements, uh, at other times and places. Especially because I think in many ways our, our future is more like our past. That's to say, you know, you know, 20 30 I think will be more similar to 18 70 than it will to 1950. Um, in…

AI assessment note: “I read a lot of old books, and I read a lot of technical journals.”

Q The consumer education part is interesting for me, because I would say that is a more prominent barrier than actually regulatory problems. To what extent do you see consumer education in, in both, you know, we've got ride sharing, we've got Bitcoin. How does that play a role in terms of putting up a barrier to entry for the mass proliferation of both autonomous cars and Bitcoin, really?

A Yeah, good question. So, so like consumer education can mean different things. Um, it can mean showing people how to use the technology, and it can also mean, you know, basically showing people that the Like deregulated or what I prefer really is like regulation two point O technologies are actually better. Right. And the reason I say regulation two point O is Uber is a more closely regulated marketplace than the taxi medallion system. It's harder to abuse it. Right. It's actually better at achieving the aims of the early twint century progressives than this antiquated system. Right. So it's not deregulated. It's, it's regulated better. So one answer is, uh, like in terms of, uh, just show it being successful in a jurisdiction. And the second thing is you have to actually have an application, which is useful enough that people decide to educate themselves about it. Um, and so for certain things like drones, you know, it starts with a toy. I think with Bitcoin, it's starting with speculation. Different industries are going to have different things that like incentivize that first group of a million or ten million people to, to get educated. Um, and then the goal is to try to scale it fast enough that the law, uh, you know, doesn't like inadvertently or unfortunately advertently ban the future.

AI assessment note: “have an application, which is useful enough that people decide to educate themselves about it”

Q The consumer education part is interesting for me, because I would say that is a more prominent barrier than actually regulatory problems. To what extent do you see consumer education in, in both, you know, we've got ride sharing, we've got Bitcoin. How does that play a role in terms of putting up a barrier to entry for the mass proliferation of both autonomous cars and Bitcoin, really?

A Yeah, good question. So, so like consumer education can mean different things. Um, it can mean showing people how to use the technology, and it can also mean, you know, basically showing people that the Like deregulated or what I prefer really is like regulation two point O technologies are actually better. Right. And the reason I say regulation two point O is Uber is a more closely regulated marketplace than the taxi medallion system. It's harder to abuse it. Right. It's actually better at achieving the aims of the early twint century progressives than this antiquated system. Right. So it's not deregulated. It's, it's regulated better. So one answer is, uh, like in terms of, uh, just show it being successful in a jurisdiction. And the second thing is you have to actually have an application, which is useful enough that people decide to educate themselves about it. Um, and so for certain things like drones, you know, it starts with a toy. I think with Bitcoin, it's starting with speculation. Different industries are going to have different things that like incentivize that first group of a million or ten million people to, to get educated. Um, and then the goal is to try to scale it fast enough that the law, uh, you know, doesn't like inadvertently or unfortunately advertently ban the future.

AI assessment note: “you have to actually have an application, which is useful enough that people decide to educate themselves”

Q And three really interesting questions that kind of come from that unpacking. And the first is then to what extent you agree with the archetypal notion of kind of Silicon Valley marketplaces like Uber and Airbnb have moved fast and break things. Do you think that is the right approach?

A Yes. You don't get plane flights. You don't get, you don't get aviation without test pilots. You know, we, we have to have early adopters. If we allow people to do bungee jumping and skydiving, if we allow people to sign up for the military and, you know, go in and like die overseas, you know, there should also be room for people who take risks to advance technology. If you go back and, you know, there's this thing called the CRC handbook of chemistry and physics. If you go and read that, um, and this is basically what there was before you had like, you know, Wikipedia and online encyclopedias of chemistry. If you go back and look at the, you know, CRC handbook of chemistry and physics, it will have for some of the really old compounds, it will have like a smell and a taste. And for the newer compounds, it doesn't have that, um, because all the way back in the past, there was some chemist who, you know, smelled cyanide, and the last thing he did was he took a hit for the team, and he scrawled down almonds, and then he died. And, uh, you know, he took a hit for the team to advance science, right? And, you know, I'm speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek, obviously, but the point is that there was a time when chemists would actually, like, smell and taste things, and that, from that library, we have, you know, the, the compounds where, You know, you build all the, all the flavors and …

AI assessment note: “Yes. You don't get plane flights. You don't get, you don't get aviation without test pilots.”

Q And, and then I questioned then from Boris, uh, at version one, who asked, what, what was it about joining Andreessen that made you want to leave the world of operations to join Andreessen? And then what was the transition in terms of moving back to 21? Uh, that made you so enticed to do that?

A Yeah, good question. So I think, like, the great thing about Anderson Horowitz is, um, it really is a vantage point from which you can see all of technology. Uh, if you're there, you learn very quickly, um, about a number of different industries, because you're basically seeing presentations from folks who are, you know, you don't necessarily invest in everybody, obviously, but you hear from some of the smartest people in different industries. So you get up to speed very quickly In, uh, sectors that you may not have thought about before. For example, drones or, you know, fintech, you know, you, you learn what the problems are. After you see like several hundred decks, you actually have a really, really good global understanding of where technology is in a way that you just don't, if you're operating one company, where necessarily you need to have a, a, a telescopic focus on just, on just one thing. So that was a, that was a big advantage. And the second big thing was, um, that, uh, I think that I was, You know, fairly influential in, you know, talking to a bunch of VCs about the extent to which regulation was the primary barrier, uh, for many different kinds of businesses, because historically Silicon Valley has been engaged with things which are related to, okay, build a faster hard drive or more storage or, or, or what have you, right? Like things that would be considered pur…

AI assessment note: “it really is a vantage point from which you can see all of technology.”

Q What's your favorite blog or newsletter? I'd love to hear your reading habits in terms of kind of industry knowledge and insider reading.

A So, I read a lot of old books, and I don't actually read, I read a lot of old books, and I read a lot of technical journals. Um, obviously, you know, you sort of keep up with tech news, uh, In your peripheral vision by simply looking at the Twitter feed of, uh, of folks, right? But I'm less focused on the contemporaneous stuff and more focused on things which are true, yet not widely known. Um, so let me give you one example, like, uh, you know, Brian Chesky at Airbnb is fond of, uh, you know, a bunch of articles written in the late 1800, early 1900 about these, um, I forgot what they were called. I think they're like not flop houses, but basically Room sharing was just much more popular around the turn of the century, um, than it was in the, you know, mid-nineteen hundreds. Um, like, 1950, you had the nuclear family, but in 1900, you had lots of people who were moving to cities, and they do room sharing. And, um, so he could see sort of, uh, societal solutions, um, for sharing economy type things from a hundred years ago that he could modernize and transplant and use for today. And I think that that's a very useful thing to read books about societal arrangements, uh, at other times and places. Especially because I think in many ways our, our future is more like our past. That's to say, you know, you know, 20 30 I think will be more similar to 18 70 than it will to 1950. Um, in…

AI assessment note: “I'm less focused on the contemporaneous stuff and more focused on things which are true”

Q And, and then I questioned then from Boris, uh, at version one, who asked, what, what was it about joining Andreessen that made you want to leave the world of operations to join Andreessen? And then what was the transition in terms of moving back to 21? Uh, that made you so enticed to do that?

A Yeah, good question. So I think, like, the great thing about Anderson Horowitz is, um, it really is a vantage point from which you can see all of technology. Uh, if you're there, you learn very quickly, um, about a number of different industries, because you're basically seeing presentations from folks who are, you know, you don't necessarily invest in everybody, obviously, but you hear from some of the smartest people in different industries. So you get up to speed very quickly In, uh, sectors that you may not have thought about before. For example, drones or, you know, fintech, you know, you, you learn what the problems are. After you see like several hundred decks, you actually have a really, really good global understanding of where technology is in a way that you just don't, if you're operating one company, where necessarily you need to have a, a, a telescopic focus on just, on just one thing. So that was a, that was a big advantage. And the second big thing was, um, that, uh, I think that I was, You know, fairly influential in, you know, talking to a bunch of VCs about the extent to which regulation was the primary barrier, uh, for many different kinds of businesses, because historically Silicon Valley has been engaged with things which are related to, okay, build a faster hard drive or more storage or, or, or what have you, right? Like things that would be considered pur…

AI assessment note: “great thing about Anderson Horowitz is, um, it really is a vantage point”