The Exchanges

Q I have so many questions. Could you have done this and had the creativity without being in the office? It sparked ideas, imagination. Would it have worked so well remotely?

A I don't think so. And I say that as someone who is a homebody and loves being remote, but like, it's honestly like having even, I mean, if you have a suit, maybe, but having the suit and just the random quirkiness and the thing, like the things around our workplace is what's made it fun. And like, even we're like, oh, we need a microphone. Like a lot of times you'll be like, no, no, no, don't do a microphone. Like use a water bottle as a microphone for the TikTok and like stuff like that, where it's just like, We want to use what we have and we genuinely believe in being scrappy and like creating the content ourselves.

AI assessment note: “I don't think so.”

Q troublemakers obvious, and what I mean by that is, we all know job interviews, you come and you say you love Shakespeare, and that you play tennis on the weekend, and you hide the fact that you, you know, maybe drink to Tequila and dance to Taylor Swift. Um, you know, which would be great if people actually said, but like, are they obvious when you interview and meet them?

A I would say you can, I feel like I can tell, because I would say our team is a team of troublemakers, and I think it's because I grew up with that, and I feel like it's more of people who don't have traditional backgrounds, and also people who are very upfront, and I, like, I stan people who are like, I am who I am, and I don't give a fuck if you like it or not, and that is the energy I want when I, and I, and I know it sounds unaccommodating and stubborn, And I've been that way, but also to a certain extent, you need that energy to push things forward. And I would also say troublemakers, if you're looking for an easy pool to start of people who are pressing these red buttons, who are testing boundaries is people with intersectional backgrounds. And I'm very adamant about this because I grew up right in a Pakistani household in a very white city in America. And my entire life was figuring out how to balance both these cultures, both these groups, figure out how to please both. And because of that, I'd find myself kind of push against up the wall sometimes, but I also know how to manage that pressure. And I'm always saying that people from intersectional backgrounds, like they go through the most, so they know how to handle the most.

AI assessment note: “I would say you can, I feel like I can tell”

Q Yeah. What would you say to founders who are like, I'm not sure about TikTok as a strategy because I just don't know if it'll actually convert to users. You might get a lot of followers. You might get a lot of likes, but I don't know if it'll actually convert to paying users. What would you say to them?

A I would kindly and candidly say, does your happy Earth Day posts convert to users? And I'm saying that because we all have, or most brands have social teams that are doing things on social that why not do this? Like, it feels like for us, it's a still a very, very low budget execution. Like it's, we're not asking for thousands of dollars, like candidly, most I would say about 95% of our impressions are completely organic and they're for the cost of like maybe duo's costume and like the sushi I had for dinner while like filming and like staying late a little bit. And I think for me, it's like you can do things and be scrappy and still be iconic. You don't have to be spending thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars to convert people like it's possible to do it by just hitting them Where they get it. And that's also, again, circling back to what I said earlier, like, that's how you know you've hit a chord with that human truth, that it is true. It's not just you saying what people think about your brand. It's the truth that connects it. And that's kind of like the funnel that I've seen, that if, if you have to create content, why not make it entertaining? Why not make it something that people want to consume?

AI assessment note: “does your happy Earth Day posts convert to users?”

Q Do you not feel the need to, like, the next thing? Like, I don't understand that. Like, when you're on the treadmill, you're on the treadmill. No?

A No. I, I mean, I feel like I, I feel like my life, like my value of where I enjoy and love doing things does not come from work and being on the treadmill of life feels more of doing stuff for my personal benefit and personal gain and like things that enlighten me and like, I'm happy, like I'm okay with where I'm at. And I, I feel like maybe in five years that'll change. Maybe I'll want to grow more, but like, I'm okay just existing and being, and that is my mantra right now. I, I don't have any crazy ambitions for the 10 years. Maybe, maybe I'll be retired. That's my dream. My dream is to be retired.

AI assessment note: “I'm okay just existing and being, and that is my mantra right now.”

Q it. So you have, the thing that I like with the continuing storyline is the resonance that it builds, and kind of the relationship that you feel to it. The question that I have then with it, though, is like, for that new Followers, which you have so many of. How do you make them feel a part of something when they're, like, jumping into season two, not season one?

A I would say that we literally just drop them into the deepest part of the ocean and say swim. Um, and I think it's because I feel like as marketers sometimes we get in this mindset that, like, we have to dumb it down and make it as simple and as explainable as possible, because people are not going to understand it. And I feel like we need to be more, we have to have more trust in our users and our followers that they know to close the loop and can bring things together. Um, and I know this isn't exactly your question, but when we first started our account and we were building content, a big question that we had was like, okay, if we're doing silly stuff, that's like duo crushing over Dua Lipa, how are people going to know that we're an effective language learning app? Like they're going to think we're silly and we don't, you know, like, We don't have any efficacy. And I think for me, the response was always like, we're able to be silly. We're able to do this because people know we have a good app that when they go and they go to the, after they see our TikTok and they're a converted user and they go to the platform and they're actually learning a language, they recognize that you can be the thing and also subvert the thing. You can be funny on TikTok like you would with your friends, but you could also be serious when you're learning in school or learning and working and work.…

AI assessment note: “we literally just drop them into the deepest part of the ocean and say swim”

Q How would you advise me on turning Happy Earth Day into a rock star, creative, imaginative person?

A I would say you have to hire troublemakers. Um, and I say that because I have been suspended before. I have been on the hot seat many times while in university. I remember in my interview at Duolingo when they asked if there are any questions you have, I was like, yeah, if you could do a presentation for 10 minutes on anything that's not about work, no notes, what would it be and why? And like questions that are just like, I don't know, like things that are just unexpected. I've been rejected from big brands for jobs and I was applying out of college because I, my resume, I can send it to you after this, but it's definitely not a traditional resume. It's very different. It's very, it's, it's unhinged. And my whole, my whole like life mantra was like, I'm going to be somewhere where I can just be Zaria and all corners of my life and all that I am, and I'm going to take it and leave it. And like, I've gotten rejected from like, I remember I applied to Google, rejected Microsoft reject, like it's fine. Like that happens because I wasn't meant to be there. Um, and troublemakers are the ones that are causing seismic cultural shifts. Like I believe they're the ones that press the red button when most of us are too scared to press it ourselves. And I say this with my boss, Michaela, that I was talking about. I remember I used to push her and I was like, you just got to trust me and I'…

AI assessment note: “I would say you have to hire troublemakers.”

Q Can I ask, how do you think about doing well? And what I mean by that is like, is it merely a case of view counts, likes? Is it a case of conversions to subscribers? How do you determine the success of Content and TikTok today.

A So our account, I think first started off as just a brand awareness thing. Um, candidly, I didn't have the resources, the time or with being remote to actually create video content. I was in my home. So I was like, all right, how do I get dueling on TikTok? I'm just going to start commenting. So I started commenting on videos and those started gaining traction. And I was like, all right, like people want to see something. And then we created videos. Now people had, when they clicked on a comment, they had something to go back to on our feed. Um, and I mean, short answer, one million views for us is like a viral video that is successful. That is what is like written down as like green check. Great job. But I feel like the real measure of success for me was when I noticed that people were referencing Duolingo's TikTok as like a home run machine or Duolingo's TikTok as like things outside of like people who would normally care about Duolingo. Um, something that was really awesome to hear is, like, from our people team, like, people were applying to work at Duolingo and, like, noting, like, our TikTok as to, as the reason to be applying to work here, and I think it's moments like that where it's, like, sure, like, we got, we do, we have our whole process for, like, converting users and doing all that fun stuff, but, like, the true mark of an iconic brand or, like, actually, like, m…

AI assessment note: “one million views for us is like a viral video that is successful”

Q because trust me, I have many thoughts on it, having, I was struggling with some elements myself. You mentioned, like, elements that are trending that you're kind of taking account of and putting in, you know, Slack channels. Is that including, like, what's happening on Instagram, or what's happening on Facebook, or TikTok, or is it just channel by channel? Like, are channels transferable, I guess is what I'm asking.

A I would say they used to not be, but now for, I think video content is a little bit, um, well, actually I take that back. I feel like they're all, it's so hard, man. Cause sometimes I feel like it is. And other times I'm like, it's absolutely not. Um, but right now we're focusing a lot on TikTok reels and shorts. And I would say that TikTok and reels feel more connected and shorts just feels like a new ball game. Um, shorts feels like Like stuff like YouTube shorts feels like something like my 13 year old nephew would be posting from the back of his middle school bathroom. Like it's just so confusing and I'm like, I'm trying to understand gen alpha and like what goes there. But I would say like the trends are very different. The content's very different there. So we're still trying to crack that nut and a lot of things that break the internet and trend on TikTok don't do well on shorts.

AI assessment note: “TikTok and reels feel more connected and shorts just feels like a new ball game”

Q But that's so hard because it can paralyze you, though, can't it? Because, like, then you just don't do anything knowing the weight of a post.

A Yeah, I think, I feel like I've always been a very, like, middle ground is just the way you gotta live your life, because either end is gonna be too much. Um, but like, candidly, like, I've commented on something that I probably shouldn't have before, and I got checked and balanced for that, and it was one of the biggest learning moments where, like, if I didn't cross the line, I wouldn't have known where the line was, and like, that's something I know we all experience when you're growing up, and like, You know, and in general, unfortunately, mine is definitely as a social media manager more in the public eye, but I think also being in an environment that allows you to make those mistakes and allows you to test and learn has been really conducive to like recovering from those mistakes and not always feeling the weight of the world on your soldiers, soldiers, shoulders, but also recognizing that like, yeah, it is a lot of people.

AI assessment note: “not always feeling the weight of the world on your shoulders”

Q But that's so hard because it can paralyze you, though, can't it? Because, like, then you just don't do anything knowing the weight of a post.

A Yeah, I think, I feel like I've always been a very, like, middle ground is just the way you gotta live your life, because either end is gonna be too much. Um, but like, candidly, like, I've commented on something that I probably shouldn't have before, and I got checked and balanced for that, and it was one of the biggest learning moments where, like, if I didn't cross the line, I wouldn't have known where the line was, and like, that's something I know we all experience when you're growing up, and like, You know, and in general, unfortunately, mine is definitely as a social media manager more in the public eye, but I think also being in an environment that allows you to make those mistakes and allows you to test and learn has been really conducive to like recovering from those mistakes and not always feeling the weight of the world on your soldiers, soldiers, shoulders, but also recognizing that like, yeah, it is a lot of people.

AI assessment note: “being in an environment that allows you to make those mistakes and allows you to test”

Q Not at all. This is my favorite type of show where I write a schedule and we're definitely not going to stick to it, but you know, we should have it anyway. Um, so tell me, you know, we see Duolingo's content today. It's incredible. You've nailed it. But how did you first get into the role with Duolingo doing content? Let's start there.

A Yeah, I think it's, It's not a typical story, but also feels pretty typical. Um, I was a pandemic graduate, so I graduated in 2020, and I did advertising and marketing in school, so it was kind of a natural next step. Um, but as for Duolingo, I actually wanted to be in a super small city. I did not like New York. I did not like agency culture, so trying to figure out, like, what does that mean for me? Um, and Duolingo Like popped out to me mainly because A, it was in a small city, so I thought it'd be low pressure, just a good time to enjoy just being and existing. Um, and the mission of Duolingo was really near and dear to my heart. Um, it's to make education accessible, but what's even deeper to me than that mission of what it is, is that it was an inherently diverse place. Like it's been founded by two immigrants, like people who just, you have to speak different languages here to like, You know, like for the app to exist. And so you're around people from different cultures, different backgrounds. Um, and just to clarify, you don't actually have to speak another language to work here, but like around you, like you'll hear it and you'll see it and you're a part of that. And that comes with the cultural and different cultures and all that stuff together. Um, so yeah, that's what brought me here. And then for content, if I'm being honest with you, I started off For a whole year…

AI assessment note: “I started off For a whole year of just doing normal, like happy Earth Day posts”

Q because trust me, I have many thoughts on it, having, I was struggling with some elements myself. You mentioned, like, elements that are trending that you're kind of taking account of and putting in, you know, Slack channels. Is that including, like, what's happening on Instagram, or what's happening on Facebook, or TikTok, or is it just channel by channel? Like, are channels transferable, I guess is what I'm asking.

A I would say they used to not be, but now for, I think video content is a little bit, um, well, actually I take that back. I feel like they're all, it's so hard, man. Cause sometimes I feel like it is. And other times I'm like, it's absolutely not. Um, but right now we're focusing a lot on TikTok reels and shorts. And I would say that TikTok and reels feel more connected and shorts just feels like a new ball game. Um, shorts feels like Like stuff like YouTube shorts feels like something like my 13 year old nephew would be posting from the back of his middle school bathroom. Like it's just so confusing and I'm like, I'm trying to understand gen alpha and like what goes there. But I would say like the trends are very different. The content's very different there. So we're still trying to crack that nut and a lot of things that break the internet and trend on TikTok don't do well on shorts.

AI assessment note: “TikTok and reels feel more connected and shorts just feels like a new ball game”

Q Yeah. What would you say to founders who are like, I'm not sure about TikTok as a strategy because I just don't know if it'll actually convert to users. You might get a lot of followers. You might get a lot of likes, but I don't know if it'll actually convert to paying users. What would you say to them?

A I would kindly and candidly say, does your happy Earth Day posts convert to users? And I'm saying that because we all have, or most brands have social teams that are doing things on social that why not do this? Like, it feels like for us, it's a still a very, very low budget execution. Like it's, we're not asking for thousands of dollars, like candidly, most I would say about 95% of our impressions are completely organic and they're for the cost of like maybe duo's costume and like the sushi I had for dinner while like filming and like staying late a little bit. And I think for me, it's like you can do things and be scrappy and still be iconic. You don't have to be spending thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars to convert people like it's possible to do it by just hitting them Where they get it. And that's also, again, circling back to what I said earlier, like, that's how you know you've hit a chord with that human truth, that it is true. It's not just you saying what people think about your brand. It's the truth that connects it. And that's kind of like the funnel that I've seen, that if, if you have to create content, why not make it entertaining? Why not make it something that people want to consume?

AI assessment note: “does your happy Earth Day posts convert to users?”