The Exchanges

Q Final one for you. When you think about the Optimism Company, when you think about 10 years out, what do you want to build?

A So I, I, you know, I, I hate the term soft skills. You know, everybody talks about hard skills and soft skills. I hate the term soft skills. There's nothing soft about them, and hard and soft are opposites. And these things are not opposite skills. They're complementary skills. And so, um, I believe in human skills. Um, you know, hard skills are the skills you need to learn to do your job, you know, obviously, and I need you to excel at that. And human skills are the skills you need to learn to be a better human being. And when you learn the skills of being a better human being, like how to listen actively, how to have empathy, how to have a difficult conversation, how to have an effective confrontation, how to give or receive feedback, um, turns out it's good for business and it's good for relationships. And so I want somebody to excel at Hard skills and human skills. And so we're building the Optimism Company to be the go-to place for anybody who's looking to improve their human skills. And so when you asked me what does the Optimism Company look like in 10 years, that, that I can, I can say with great pride that we are having a positive contribution, a positive impact in the lives of people who have improved their human skills because of the stuff that we've been, um, offering.

AI assessment note: “building the Optimism Company to be the go-to place for anybody who's looking to improve their human skills”

Q shared so much wisdom over the years, and one thing that kind of struck me when I was kind of thinking about this conversation was, was there a catalytic moment in the rise of Simon Sinek? Was it the TED Talk in 2008, 2009? Was it the second book? Was it the first book? What was that moment when actually the Simon Sinek brand really became so, so well known?

A Like so many things, I don't, I don't, there's not an answer to that question. That's like asking me when you started working out, when was the moment you got into shape? It's like, I don't know the answer to that question. Um, you know, you, there's a process that you follow and you find yourself in shape. You know, it's an evolution. It's not a, it's not a switch. Um, and so the same, the same is for my career. You know, there are, you know, I committed myself to a process, um, that I believed in and still believe in desperately. One is starting with why. Um, I believe desperately that if you, if both in your own mentality and the way you talk and communicate, um, you start with what you believe rather than what you do. Um, and the second thing is the law of diffusion of innovations, which is, um, all populations sift across the standard deviation, the bell curve. If you have high performers, you have low performers, and you have an average. Always, always, always. Regardless of the size of the population. And the law of diffusion tells us that the, the, the early adopters, um, are more likely to take a risk and try something new. Um, um, and you need to get a critical mass of those, 15 to 18%, in order to create a tipping point. Because the majority won't try something until someone else has tried it first. And most people, when they're trying to build a brand, or spread a t…

AI assessment note: “there's not an answer to that question. It's an evolution. It's not a switch.”

Q Did getting burnt change your mindset? I, I've been burnt before too, and it really made me a lot more visceral in how I am with trust. And I, I don't trust people period until they prove something and then it's like, but I used to be a lot more trusting.

A Well, think about that, right? You said, I don't trust people until they prove. That means you're always You're showing up with like a checklist and you're evaluating them like they're a scientific study, right? Well, people can feel that. And so they're probably not going to put their, they're not going to put their walls down either. And what you're communicating is, um, I don't trust you, which means they're not going to trust you back. I mean, you'll have a hard time earning trust if you don't trust people. It's not a one way street. Trust is a two way street. So if you show up distant and cold and untrustworthy for whatever You've been burned in the past. Well, you're gonna have a really hard time getting trust back also. So you think you're protecting yourself and the great irony is you're putting yourself in a little box, a very lonely little box. You know, that's what happens when you build yourself, when you build walls around yourself to protect yourself, you end up in a little, in a little dungeon, a little prison. So, you know, yes, I've been burned and yes, I got cynical and yes, I had to learn to break those walls back down again. And yes, I got burned and went back up and I learned to pull them back down again. But you know, I, I tried very hard not to Keep reinforcing the walls every time, you know, things went a little sideways or things got a little uncomforta…

AI assessment note: “yes, I've been burned and yes, I got cynical and yes, I had to learn”

Q Especially in our industry and in technology, that seems to be the wrong thing we should have Impact with our technology. We should save the planet, save the planet, whatever it is. Is there ever a wrong why?

A So you're confusing a couple things there. Um, you're confusing, so a why is not a goal. A why is not an outcome. Making money is an output. Like, money is a result. Profit comes at the end of the equation, not at the beginning of it, right? Um, a why is an input. Um, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a motivation and a drive. Um, and so the question I would ask is why do you want to make money? Do you want to just roll around on it on your bed like Scrooge McDuck and throw money in the air? Is that what you want to do? Every night you want to sit and count the pennies in the bank account. Is that what you want to get your hits from? You know, there, there's a reason why. Um, and the reason why people who are driven solely to make money, um, are, uh, sometimes vilified, um, is because it is a, largely a selfish pursuit. And it's usually some sort of score or some sort of validation or some sort of selfish desire to live a certain lifestyle. Um, and I also equally don't believe in, you know, we're doing this to have an impact and change the world. That doesn't mean anything either. You know, um, my why is to inspire people to do the things that inspire them. That's why I get out of bed in the morning. Um, and I have a vision of the world that does not yet exist. I imagine a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired Feel safe wherever they are, and…

AI assessment note: “a why is not a goal. A why is not an outcome.”

Q What have you changed your mind on in the last 12 months?

A So I, I love this idea of, in the last 12 months, I've sort of When you're, when you're an entrepreneur, right, when you start a business, um, you believe desperately in your vision and what you're doing. You have to, because going out by yourself is completely stupid. Um, and the first people you hire are your mates, who also believe desperately in what you're doing. And belief becomes currency, like we're a team of believers, right? And as the organization starts to grow, belief in the cause becomes the currency by which we judge others. But the problem is, is at some point, if you achieve any kind of real scale, um, that actually can cloud and blind your vision of other people on the team. So for example, you might have someone on the team who's a negative Nelly. All they do is talk about all the problems, all they do is talk about all the things that aren't working, and you accuse them of being non-believers, and you push them out of the organization. Or you marginalize them. Or you're like, oh, I don't have a meeting with them again. God, all they do is talk about the negative things. And now the standard of belief has been, um, it's become dangerous because now what you're doing is now you're creating an echo chamber around yourself, and now you're only surrounding yourself with people who believe and see the world the way you see it. And the reality is there's, there's, …

AI assessment note: “now the standard of belief has been, um, it's become dangerous”

Q If you apply, like, another why to that, why do you want to inspire people with wonder and awe on a thing that they haven't seen? Is it because you love to delight people? Is it because you love to educate people?

A Like, I think it's just ingrained. You know, I, I, um, I believe in sharing. You know, I, I, I think it's, I think it's selfish not to share. There are people who, when they find something magical, they want to hoard it and hide it. You know, if they figure something out, they don't want to tell anybody for, you know, because they believe that it gives them some sort of, you know, upper hand or some sort of advantage in life or at work. And I like sharing. You know, I, I like, if I see something, I want to share it with people. If I discover something, I want to tell people about it. Um, I just think it's a, it's a nice way to live, live a life. And I, and I think everybody should do the same. You know, um, you know, sharing your feelings with your loved ones, you know, sharing your ideas with the people you work with. Um, uh, all those things matter. You know, there's an entire section of the bookshop called self-help, and there's no section in the bookshop called help others. We've, we've over, we've overdone it. On taking, and, and hoarding, and being self-involved, and I think we could, we could, our society could do with a little more balance, you know, a little more giving to, to, to manage all the taking.

AI assessment note: “I think it's just ingrained. You know, I, I, um, I believe in sharing.”

Q and you've got a lot more grounding in that personality, and I'm like, well, one, if you don't change, actually, that's irrelevant, And two, I kind of think we're always changing. Just because you hit 40 doesn't mean you're not going to change personality, whatever that is. How do you feel about that statement of wait until you're 40 till you get married, because then you know who you are?

A I don't, yeah, I mean, I don't think it's, I think any kind of dogma is, is unhealthy. You know, people telling us when we should and shouldn't do something based on their experience, not ours. Um, um, guidance is helpful. Advice is helpful, but do or don'ts. I mean, I don't know about that. But, uh, the, the, the fact of the matter is our why, the core of who you are, is, is, is done. It's set. The question is, are you living to that core? Are you, are you in balance? Um, are you saying and doing the things you actually believe? Are you operating based on your values? You know, when, when I talk about why, how, and what, it's all three pieces that matter. It's not just knowing your why, it's also how do you operate and what are you doing, that those three pieces need to be completely in balance. Um, and so of course you're in constant improvement, and of course you're learning how to, you know, be more self-aware, and make other people feel heard, and be a better communicator, and learn how to deal with conflict better, and learn how to have difficult conversations, and learn how to not be reactive, and have a temper, and all of these things. Of course you should be in constant improvement. There's no such thing as a perfect person, but the fundamental of who you are at the core of your personality, the core of your identity, the core of the value you give to the world is comp…

AI assessment note: “I think any kind of dogma is, is unhealthy.”

Q What have you changed your mind on in the last 12 months?

A So I, I love this idea of, in the last 12 months, I've sort of When you're, when you're an entrepreneur, right, when you start a business, um, you believe desperately in your vision and what you're doing. You have to, because going out by yourself is completely stupid. Um, and the first people you hire are your mates, who also believe desperately in what you're doing. And belief becomes currency, like we're a team of believers, right? And as the organization starts to grow, belief in the cause becomes the currency by which we judge others. But the problem is, is at some point, if you achieve any kind of real scale, um, that actually can cloud and blind your vision of other people on the team. So for example, you might have someone on the team who's a negative Nelly. All they do is talk about all the problems, all they do is talk about all the things that aren't working, and you accuse them of being non-believers, and you push them out of the organization. Or you marginalize them. Or you're like, oh, I don't have a meeting with them again. God, all they do is talk about the negative things. And now the standard of belief has been, um, it's become dangerous because now what you're doing is now you're creating an echo chamber around yourself, and now you're only surrounding yourself with people who believe and see the world the way you see it. And the reality is there's, there's, …

AI assessment note: “creating an echo chamber around yourself, and now you're only surrounding yourself with people”

Q Why is this generation more avoidant than prior generations?

A I mean, there's a million reasons, you know, some of it was parenting. It's very, you know, the, the, the, our parents, uh, the parents of this generation are much more cuddling. Um, by the way, the parents, the parents would tell you that, you know, it's, it's not like some deep scientific evidence. The parents would be like, ah, shit, you know. Um, I raised them that way. Whoops, you know. It's, uh, Partially, we can't ignore the impact of social media, and we're constantly comparing ourselves to other people, you know. Um, the way we seek validation, the identity we have of ourselves comes from keeping score. How many likes do I have? How many followers do I have?

AI assessment note: “there's a million reasons, you know, some of it was parenting.”