The Exchanges

Q is say you're having a really hard time in the stage of the business and it's really hard and then you get up or you come into work and Putting on the brave face and saying, we're great, all good, whatever. It's not authentic, or you're having a really hard time with your wife or your kids or whatever. You're struggling. Is it not inauthentic to then not be transparent?

A Well, it's kind of the same thing as our brain is just, it's, it's just sort of a random generator machine. And this idea of say, I'm going to never lie. Therefore I should be saying everything that comes to my mind. That's a stupidity. Like our brain is going to generate, if you walk on a street and you see people, your brain's generating, judging people and their looks and this and that, um, to be honest and authentic doesn't mean you say everything that comes to your mind. So I don't think it's, that's kind of how I think about it. Um, you know, we have prefrontal cortex, we can decide. Most of the time, some of the time what comes out of our, so I don't think it's, uh, being in authentic, um, And then this one, I'll give you an example, like vulnerability. Like I have cried countless times in front of my, my team as a CEO. That to me is vulnerability. And there are moments when, you know, we treat people with diabetes, we reverse their disease, we save their lives. And it's, they are heartbreakingly amazing stories. Heartbreaking and amazing stories that we hear from our patients. Sometimes I hear those stories And it just literally makes me cry from sort of joy and happiness and gratitude. And, you know, obviously there's situations where you kind of want to hold back and sometimes you just, you just cry. So that's one example. I've cried in front of my team.

AI assessment note: “to be honest and authentic doesn't mean you say everything that comes to your mind”

Q Why do you think it's harder for men? I'm intrigued on that.

A Well, I, I am, I'm just, uh, quoting my, uh, my lovely wife who, uh, keeps telling me that we women, we, we have way more sort of trusted friendships where we openly share. So I'm, I'm taking that, uh, as a fact from her. Uh, I think Aries, this is stereotypes, but I think men have more like casual friends where like we're good buddies, but Don't necessarily go four layers deeper, and like, honestly, let me just tell you, like, you know, I don't know, like, I still cry, because my dad never gave me whatever, a pat on the back, or what, whatnot, so I, I don't know, I might be wrong, but I think on average, I think men have more buddies, but it's not, That's authentic and vulnerable necessarily, but having a group like a YPO forum is incredibly helpful.

AI assessment note: “men have more like casual friends... Don't necessarily go four layers deeper”

Q Do you think it's because you were suddenly directionless for the first time? There was no next carrot. You find you had all these nice things, a nice, a nice apartment, a wonderful wife fit, and how, but What now?

A Well, I will, first I will say, I'm glad I was married. I'm glad I had a wonderful, uh, wife and spouse who, whom I'm still married to, because if I was single, living in New York, suddenly a lot of money, suddenly a lot of time, and I'm feeling kind of, kind of rudderless and anxious, that would definitely would have been an optimal moment to go down the wrong path, wrong addictions. And believe that, oh, I'm just missing something which you may be able to find from Vegas. I'm so glad I did not go down that path. Um, we decided to go, we, as in me and my wife, we decided to go to a 10 day silent meditation retreat in Taiwan, uh, soon after, um, To address this, uh, this, this weakness. So to answer your question, and I've been a meditator ever since, so that's more than a decade ago. I had never been aware of how the mind works and what's happening there. And if the mind is running you, you're going to be in trouble. And you can, you can kind of, um, fool yourself by basically Pretending like the next thing in, like, kind of like pretending that the next thing in, in front of your nose is the thing you have to do. But if you've never actually stopped, Truly stopped and see what's happening in your mind. Uh, you were just kind of a train wreck waiting to happen. And I had literally, I had never had that moment where I would truly stop and say, Hey, now, now I can do anything.

AI assessment note: “I had literally, I had never had that moment where I would truly stop”

Q Favorite blog or newsletter? What are the must reads? Rainy day, what do you sit down to?

A I've actually become less of a fan of blogs, and the reason is practically every blog today offers a very one-sided viewpoint. It's do X because A, B, and C, and then if you're not a subject matter expert when you're reading it, it just takes a lot of energy to try to think about why that's Actually, right. Or maybe it's actually wrong. So I've actually become a huge fan of this podcast called intelligence. For the record, as I was riding my bicycle to my office this morning, I was listening to 20 minute VC and two of you. But so, so I've become a huge fan of this podcast intelligence squared, because you'll always hear from two or four world-class experts who debate both sides of the topic. So it's absolutely fascinating to, to listen to that sort of a 360 degree view as opposed to just read someone's one-sided viewpoint about a topic.

AI assessment note: “I've actually become less of a fan of blogs... huge fan of this podcast”

Q OK, Sammy, final one for you. 10 years time, where's Sami Inkanen then, and where's Verta then?

A For context, I think what we are trying to do, which is really addressing obesity and high-Q diabetes by actually making people healthy, unlike wonderful companies like Novo Notice that are selling drugs to treat the symptoms of diabetes and obesity. I think this journey of helping potentially billion-plus people Restore their metabolic health by addressing obesity and diabetes. That's like a 30 plus year journey, or more. Like, I don't think this work is ever done, so I think we are somewhere On that trajectory. Hopefully we are a global company. Uh, hopefully we are a counterbalance to a company like Novo Nordisk that's selling drugs to treat symptoms of these diseases. Hopefully we are known as the, um, lifestyle treatment version of Novo Nordisk that is addressing the root cause of type two diabetes and obesity and sort of globally known as a company that's doing good. I, hopefully we are there and hopefully I'm still playing There's some kind of a key role, um, in, in the company's growth and success. That's kind of how I'd like it to be.

AI assessment note: “hopefully I'm still playing There's some kind of a key role”

Q is say you're having a really hard time in the stage of the business and it's really hard and then you get up or you come into work and Putting on the brave face and saying, we're great, all good, whatever. It's not authentic, or you're having a really hard time with your wife or your kids or whatever. You're struggling. Is it not inauthentic to then not be transparent?

A Well, it's kind of the same thing as our brain is just, it's, it's just sort of a random generator machine. And this idea of say, I'm going to never lie. Therefore I should be saying everything that comes to my mind. That's a stupidity. Like our brain is going to generate, if you walk on a street and you see people, your brain's generating, judging people and their looks and this and that, um, to be honest and authentic doesn't mean you say everything that comes to your mind. So I don't think it's, that's kind of how I think about it. Um, you know, we have prefrontal cortex, we can decide. Most of the time, some of the time what comes out of our, so I don't think it's, uh, being in authentic, um, And then this one, I'll give you an example, like vulnerability. Like I have cried countless times in front of my, my team as a CEO. That to me is vulnerability. And there are moments when, you know, we treat people with diabetes, we reverse their disease, we save their lives. And it's, they are heartbreakingly amazing stories. Heartbreaking and amazing stories that we hear from our patients. Sometimes I hear those stories And it just literally makes me cry from sort of joy and happiness and gratitude. And, you know, obviously there's situations where you kind of want to hold back and sometimes you just, you just cry. So that's one example. I've cried in front of my team.

AI assessment note: “to be honest and authentic doesn't mean you say everything that comes to your mind.”

Q Honestly, I haven't navigated that balance. I think a lot of people followed my running when I started running a lot, and I went to running two or three times a week, a marathon. So two or three marathons a week. Sammy, my fucking needs a shot. I, I can't run at all anymore. I'm so fucked. I didn't listen. And I, how do you know where that line is?

A I think the ability to observe yourself is an absolute superpower, uh, which I personally have developed over years now, I'd say decades through, through meditation. I guess the analogy I've sometimes used is You know, you're in a computer software, so you know, like, you write code, you can have sort of runtime debugging mode, you can see the code line by line, and then you can kind of find where it gets stuck. Um, that's kind of, if you can observe your own thoughts or your own behavior, take like a step back, And see what's happening. I think that's a kind of a superpower. And I am not trying to pretend, um, I'm, I'm like, excellent at it. I am a beginner. But I think cultivating the ability to observe your own thoughts and behavior is absolutely essential in kind of catching you and yourself and your behaviors and hopefully catch it before it goes too far. So that's one way in which I try to do that. And I'll just give you a practical somewhat silly examples. Like what am I addicted to? So certainly in, in sports, like I try to be aware of why I'm doing it. You know, I, I have a training log. I keep track of how much should I do. I try to be aware of when I'm getting too close, overreaching or overtraining, or I may be getting sick. So that's one example. Caffeine intake. People ask me, do you drink coffee? It's the kind of person you probably don't drink coffee. I'm like, …

AI assessment note: “cultivating the ability to observe your own thoughts and behavior is absolutely essential”

Q Can you, can you shag on a rowing boat?

A You, you can, but it's not very hot. Let's put it this way. First child was born just about nine months after we landed in Hawaii. Just about nine months. The second thing is probably the sweetest moment in my life ever has been hopping off the boat on Waikiki beach and giving a hug to my wife. After 45 days and three hours of rowing, and knowing that there's only one person in the world who knows exactly what we went through, the pain, the suffering, the fears, and that's my wife. There's only one person in the world who knows exactly what we went through. She went through it, and knowing she could get through that. That feeling and trust That it was just pure sweetness to give her a hug and know that if we can get through that and we have that shared experience, you need quite an obstacle that two of us will crack and fall apart in the following decades. And so that was the second thing. It was just like, holy shit, this is an amazing experience we have. And we both get through it. We've seen each other tired, stressed. Anxious. About to fall apart. Fearful. And we could just kind of come together and, and overcome all those obstacles.

AI assessment note: “You, you can, but it's not very hot.”

Q a little bit that, you know, you outsourced a lot parenting wise in the first six years, and now, you know, your wife obviously is full time. I'm intrigued. Just what does being a great father mean to you? And were you nervous being so on and so addictive mindset wise That you would not be able to be a great operator when you have this incredible responsibility of children.

A I was not. And by the way, I read and I hear a lot about that. Well, I'm not going to be such a great CEO. Wait a second. You, you, you really have to take a step back and ask what is there to life and what am I here optimizing? And I was so convinced that the greatest thing I can experience as a human is to be a parent after a role that I never questioned The fact that we want to have kids, and how that's going to affect other parts of life. Like, I was so convinced that that is the right thing to do, and then everything else will fall into place. Around it. So I, I personally had no kind of, and obviously it changes and people, you know, people create stories like, well, because I'm a parent, I'm actually a better leader. It's like, maybe I am, maybe I'm worse. I honestly, I don't care. It is very clear to me. I want to be a parent. I wanted to have kids. I'm very grateful. I have two wonderful daughters and whatever the implications of that are on my other parts of life, then be it. I can tell a story. I can do beautiful story. I'm a better CEO because I have kids. Maybe I am. I might be, but I might be worse too. I, I don't know.

AI assessment note: “I was not. And by the way, I read and I hear a lot about”

Q Speaking of dangerous, I am just intrigued. You said there about kind of friends around you who've burnt out, who have really struggled and cracked. When you look at them, what are the commonalities amongst them that made them crack, do you think? And for founders listening, wanting to go, oh gosh, I don't want that to be me. What do you say to them?

A I'm no doctor, I'm no psychologist, and I don't play one on the internet, so take this with a grain of salt. Rather than saying what are the commonalities in those, I'll, I'll, I'll share what I have done, what I think is important, and usually people are lacking those things, I, I think. So this is sort of three or four things that I very consciously invest time. One is foundation of health. Like, I treat myself like an Olympic athlete, basically. And at this mind and body to me, it's just all biology. It's just one and the same thing. So this is a simple example. Like if you don't sleep enough, like, oh my God, everything unravels. Like you're so more likely to become depressed and crack and whatnot.

AI assessment note: “Rather than saying what are the commonalities in those, I'll share what I have done”

Q Speaking of dangerous, I am just intrigued. You said there about kind of friends around you who've burnt out, who have really struggled and cracked. When you look at them, what are the commonalities amongst them that made them crack, do you think? And for founders listening, wanting to go, oh gosh, I don't want that to be me. What do you say to them?

A I'm no doctor, I'm no psychologist, and I don't play one on the internet, so take this with a grain of salt. Rather than saying what are the commonalities in those, I'll, I'll, I'll share what I have done, what I think is important, and usually people are lacking those things, I, I think. So this is sort of three or four things that I very consciously invest time. One is foundation of health. Like, I treat myself like an Olympic athlete, basically. And at this mind and body to me, it's just all biology. It's just one and the same thing. So this is a simple example. Like if you don't sleep enough, like, oh my God, everything unravels. Like you're so more likely to become depressed and crack and whatnot.

AI assessment note: “Rather than saying what are the commonalities in those, I'll, I'll, I'll share what I have done”

Q When was that and what mask were you putting on?

A I think even coming to America, you know, in my, in my twenties and being very insecure, you know, I went to Stanford for my second grad school and starting from there, you come from the potato fields of Finland and you just like everything. You're like, oh my God, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna be able to swim. I'm gonna sink here. So you're very insecure and just try to hide your vulnerabilities. And so it's just insecurity. And then always trying to think like, how do I behave here to appear as competent and confident as possible? It's very draining. It's extremely draining. It's horrible. So I think that's an example of not being truly authentic. But then the other part of your question was, uh, vulnerability. Um, I think it is also a superpower to be able to be vulnerable. Being a hundred percent vulnerable in a hundred percent situations. I think that's a recipe for disaster. Like that's absolutely a recipe for disaster. Starting from, you know, depending on what kind of bear you meet on a trail, sometimes you have to act big, loud and noise and pretend. That they, so they run away and for some type of a bear, you really just want to go down and pretend like, you know, you're dead and that's how you save your body. So anyway, that's kind of a silly example, but it's the same thing in interacting with, with, with, with humans. And so one example, you know, I'm a CEO, founde…

AI assessment note: “how do I behave here to appear as competent and confident as possible?”

Q What was the biggest argument you had on the trip? 45 days. That is a long time. You only see each other. What was the biggest argument?

A So this is kind of an argument, but so, so one of the things you have is a lot of time and you have a captive audience. You can't escape. You can't be like, Come on. I'm, I'm angry. I'm going to walk that way. You walk that way. And let's, let's talk about this in a week. No, you, you're both captive audience. So we had a lot of time to fill the airwaves and come up with ideas. We talked about how do you come up with, you know, peace in Middle East? What would you do if you were president of this and that kind of law, all kinds of topics. And then one of the topics, my lovely wife threw at me said, you know what, if you didn't marry me, which one of our friends Would you marry?

AI assessment note: “if you didn't marry me, which one of our friends Would you marry?”

Q Can you, can you shag on a rowing boat?

A You, you can, but it's not very hot. Let's put it this way. First child was born just about nine months after we landed in Hawaii. Just about nine months. The second thing is probably the sweetest moment in my life ever has been hopping off the boat on Waikiki beach and giving a hug to my wife. After 45 days and three hours of rowing, and knowing that there's only one person in the world who knows exactly what we went through, the pain, the suffering, the fears, and that's my wife. There's only one person in the world who knows exactly what we went through. She went through it, and knowing she could get through that. That feeling and trust That it was just pure sweetness to give her a hug and know that if we can get through that and we have that shared experience, you need quite an obstacle that two of us will crack and fall apart in the following decades. And so that was the second thing. It was just like, holy shit, this is an amazing experience we have. And we both get through it. We've seen each other tired, stressed. Anxious. About to fall apart. Fearful. And we could just kind of come together and, and overcome all those obstacles.

AI assessment note: “You, you can, but it's not very hot.”

Q a little bit that, you know, you outsourced a lot parenting wise in the first six years, and now, you know, your wife obviously is full time. I'm intrigued. Just what does being a great father mean to you? And were you nervous being so on and so addictive mindset wise That you would not be able to be a great operator when you have this incredible responsibility of children.

A I was not. And by the way, I read and I hear a lot about that. Well, I'm not going to be such a great CEO. Wait a second. You, you, you really have to take a step back and ask what is there to life and what am I here optimizing? And I was so convinced that the greatest thing I can experience as a human is to be a parent after a role that I never questioned The fact that we want to have kids, and how that's going to affect other parts of life. Like, I was so convinced that that is the right thing to do, and then everything else will fall into place. Around it. So I, I personally had no kind of, and obviously it changes and people, you know, people create stories like, well, because I'm a parent, I'm actually a better leader. It's like, maybe I am, maybe I'm worse. I honestly, I don't care. It is very clear to me. I want to be a parent. I wanted to have kids. I'm very grateful. I have two wonderful daughters and whatever the implications of that are on my other parts of life, then be it. I can tell a story. I can do beautiful story. I'm a better CEO because I have kids. Maybe I am. I might be, but I might be worse too. I, I don't know.

AI assessment note: “I was not. And by the way, I read and I hear a lot”

Q Can you take me to an absurd time when you observed something really unhealthy and what you learned or did from it? When you went, oh no, that's not good.

A There are many moments when, you know, I'm just, despite being, if, you know, grown in Finland and kind of an Iceman and calm cool collected, there are moments where you are just about to lose it. Whether you're tired or someone's screaming or whatnot, it's almost like anger management. Just being able to catch the wave of emotions coming up and you about to be like, Seriously. Whether that's yelling or screaming or whatever, if you can catch you in the, in the, in the, before you act, like I have daily moments like that, whether that's with kids or spouse, you're about to say something and you realize, do I want to preserve this relationship or do I try to be right? Or do I try to satisfy my own urge to, to be right or feel better?

AI assessment note: “I have daily moments like that, whether that's with kids or spouse”