The Exchanges

Q What changes? Why as you get older, you do?

A I think when you're younger, you, you're, you're kind of, you're ready to hustle more. You're ready to put up with stuff. It doesn't mean that as you're older, you shouldn't put yourself in some uncomfortable positions and situations because you learn from those uncomfortable situations. I think you think, you know, I want to use my time in the most valuable way possible. Um, and therefore I want to enjoy what I'm doing. Now, by the way, that's a privilege. I, I reckon a small percentage of the population are, are really love, can say they really love what they're doing. And there's a lot of people just have to do a job and they, you know, they get what they can out of it, but they can't say they love, love, love it. So I, I think if you, if you are able to do a job where you love it, you, you should realize how privileged you are.

AI assessment note: “when you're younger, you, you're, you're kind of, you're ready to hustle more.”

Q How does that shape your thinking then? If you take that one level deeper, if it doesn't always seem rational, do you do anything as a result of that?

A Well, to some extent you, you have to move with the trends. So obviously we've seen that movement from, uh, you know, it's all about revenue to show me you can make some money, show me you can make some profit. So it's partly about understanding how things are changing and how things are going to be changing the way they're valued. I think it actually just takes you back to the fundamentals. Do you believe in these people? Do you believe in this idea? Do you believe in their execution? And then regardless of that, you, you give your best chance for good outcome. Not every time, but regardless of that, you give your best chance for good outcome.

AI assessment note: “I think it actually just takes you back to the fundamentals.”

Q How do you think about that worsening the discovery problem even further?

A It's going to worsen it. I think you're right. I think, you know, there's a big who knows about everything in AI now, but hits and stars. Okay. I mean, hits and stars. And, and that's something Len actually says quite a lot, you know, as someone who bought one of the three majors in music, and there's plenty of experience in it across entertainment like me now, you have to focus on talents to give yourself the best chance. Um, you also have to take risks. You know, that's something I learned throughout my career. If you try and do exactly what people have done before, You often get a, a sort of slightly shallower facsimile of it, a faded facsimile. And you have to take risk, which means some of them don't work, but some of them do. Um, you know, they zig, we zag, that kind of thing. And actually that really fits with Len's perspective of investment too. You know, he's something of a contrarian investor who'll look for opportunities in the opposite direction from where other people are looking. And I think that's actually been, um, one of the hallmarks of his success.

AI assessment note: “It's going to worsen it. I think you're right.”

Q What changes? Why as you get older, you do?

A I think when you're younger, you, you're, you're kind of, you're ready to hustle more. You're ready to put up with stuff. It doesn't mean that as you're older, you shouldn't put yourself in some uncomfortable positions and situations because you learn from those uncomfortable situations. I think you think, you know, I want to use my time in the most valuable way possible. Um, and therefore I want to enjoy what I'm doing. Now, by the way, that's a privilege. I, I reckon a small percentage of the population are, are really love, can say they really love what they're doing. And there's a lot of people just have to do a job and they, you know, they get what they can out of it, but they can't say they love, love, love it. So I, I think if you, if you are able to do a job where you love it, you, you should realize how privileged you are.

AI assessment note: “I think you think, you know, I want to use my time in the most valuable way possible.”

Q New York, I don't know. I don't spend too much time in New York. But I love that, and so I find that, is there anything that's different between them? When you look at, like, kind of, maybe the more, As I'm fair to say more creative, but when you look at your actors, your directors, writers versus the founders, is there anything where the best have a difference?

A On stage talent often come with a range of insecurities. Uh, it's a different thing that, you know, they take a risk and put themselves out in the public that the rest of us don't. That involves risk and vulnerability that most of us don't ever experience. So that's something interesting in how you manage them and get the best out of them. Um, I, I think that's actually one really, really important difference that they take a different kind of risk. A founder is taking risk with people's money. An actor or an artist is taking a risk in a very public way about how people will respond to their art and what they're doing on stage or on film or, or in a gallery. So I think that's actually one of the interesting things you have to do. And again, it comes around to how you manage people, how you understand what concerns them, how you can best support them. What are the strengths you have that other people might not have or you've got more of? I'll give you another example. So my background, I am not going to be the fastest in the room on the Excel, ok? I understand how the Excel works, ok? I can do the maths, but I won't be the fastest. But I may be one of the better people at understanding how people are feeling about their work, how you can encourage them the most, what kind of incentives they need, and how you can best support them. So it's about, also about being very honest with…

AI assessment note: “A founder is taking risk with people's money. An actor or an artist is taking”

Q I had this beautiful structure of the conversation and I'm just kind of going to ignore it because I want to just roll with this. How did they then think about it internally when they think about that fragmentation? What are they saying and what did you think when you were in that seat?

A First of all, you shouldn't accept that linear television is over, broadcast television is over. Particularly for older audiences, they are watching quite a lot of amounts. So channels have value. But I believe particularly with digital audiences, it's the young audiences that have obviously moved over first. And you really need to pay a lot of attention to what young audiences are doing, because they're the pathfinder for the older audiences. So I try to think most about youth audiences as the kind of pathfinder to what the future will be like. And I, you see that in other places, you know, one of our very interesting stats I've, I've noticed more recently was, so in the US, more hours are consumed of YouTube on connected TVs than Netflix. And that's because, you know, you can watch YouTube now on your main TV, um, and people are watching so much YouTube, it's now more out than Netflix. So that gives you an idea about how the ground has shifted. Telling you something about my age, I remember in this country when a fourth network channel was, uh, announced, uh, started broadcasting Channel Four. Okay, that was in the eighties. Can you imagine that now? You have hundreds, if not thousands, of sources of entertainment across, across a broad, broad spectrum. I think you focus on the young to start with because they're the pathfinders. And the key, more than anything, is have great…

AI assessment note: “I try to think most about youth audiences as the kind of pathfinder”

Q Okay, I totally get you there. Tell me, what's your biggest lesson from working with Len?

A He also says do big things. Do less and do big things. I think that's right. I think, you know, you've only got so much amount of bandwidth, but you know, I, I learn whenever I'm with him and he's very generous with his time with me, I learn things every time from his business experience, a story he might tell, or he'll say, you know, generally speaking, I found this and I've seen this pattern. So there are some like big things, but actually I, I, when you're lucky enough to work with someone like that is, you know, one of the world's most successful businessmen, you learn from them all the time. You learn from every conversation. Sometimes you might say something that interests them as well, but I definitely learn all the time from him.

AI assessment note: “Do less and do big things. I think that's right.”

Q Do you worry about the loneliness pandemic? We spoke earlier about kind of people management and how they feel, and you said about kind of being really very good at how they feel. I'm really worried that actually, which is more depressed than loneliness.

A So my, my much smarter than me wife, Wrote a book about this three or so years ago before everyone started talking about it, uh, called The Lonely Century. Um, and she actually wrote it before the pandemic because she, through some experiences she'd had of, uh, teaching and some work she'd actually been doing on, on the rise of the far right in Europe, she could see this loneliness trend building. So she wrote a book which was published. She actually delivered it, uh, first to publisher in March, 20, just as the pandemic was starting and then took it back to, to rewrite sections to weave the pandemic in. As someone who did colorway editing and helping with that book, Um, yes, it's a very, it's a huge, huge issue for young people as much as old people. The data around, you know, young people are actually lonelier than old people. Those are some terrible stories and, uh, things around old people. But I think it's a massive, massive thing. I think digital culture and social media and our phones have played a massive role in that. So yeah, um, by the lonely century today, and you'll, you'll see. But what, what's so interesting about-

AI assessment note: “yes, it's a very, it's a huge, huge issue”

Q I love the theatre, but I look at it and I'm always like, is it a good business?

A You can make money, but you're never going to make a huge amount of money. The real money comes in with access entertainment. We don't think about one investment vertical, film or television. We think about attention and eyeballs. If you think about attention and eyeballs, you create an opportunity to pick the best in class right across the entertainment sphere. Whatever business you're in, whether you're an investor or you run a business, being honest about what your strengths are and where you need to lean on other people, that is the secret of success to I believe in storytelling as an incredible source of revenue. The entertainment world is all about storytelling, and storytelling by companies and founders is not always as good as it needs to be.

AI assessment note: “You can make money, but you're never going to make a huge amount of money.”

Q How do you think about that worsening the discovery problem even further?

A It's going to worsen it. I think you're right. I think, you know, there's a big who knows about everything in AI now, but hits and stars. Okay. I mean, hits and stars. And, and that's something Len actually says quite a lot, you know, as someone who bought one of the three majors in music, and there's plenty of experience in it across entertainment like me now, you have to focus on talents to give yourself the best chance. Um, you also have to take risks. You know, that's something I learned throughout my career. If you try and do exactly what people have done before, You often get a, a sort of slightly shallower facsimile of it, a faded facsimile. And you have to take risk, which means some of them don't work, but some of them do. Um, you know, they zig, we zag, that kind of thing. And actually that really fits with Len's perspective of investment too. You know, he's something of a contrarian investor who'll look for opportunities in the opposite direction from where other people are looking. And I think that's actually been, um, one of the hallmarks of his success.

AI assessment note: “It's going to worsen it. I think you're right.”