The Exchanges

Q of the, Interesting elements is venture value add. A lot of founders say, oh, I'm thinking about this VC or that VC because they bring this and this and this. How do you think about venture value add? And you've said before the best VCs in the world are humble enough to realize that they're not going to change the outcome. How do you advise founders on venture value add?

A Well, first of all, I, I think that statement is, is completely correct. And, uh, and, and, and, and it is, it is my fundamental belief. The greatest VCs that I have met are the people that, that know this. When I, when, when the company was, was bought, when the deal got closed, I remember having coffee with Brian Singerman, and we both lived in Noe Valley at the time, so, and I was curious. I'm like, hey, how is it being a VC? What's, how do you do it at Founders Fund? Do you think I could do it? And I think he said something, he said, I don't know if you can do it, but I don't think you can do it, and I don't think he would be good at it. And I'm like, and I'm like, I'm like, why do you think that? He's like, well, you care too much. Like you're an operator. You want to, you believe that you can change things and you can do that when you're running your company. But you would look at in, when you're an investor, you have to realize that there's nothing you can do. It doesn't matter. So at Founders Fund, they, they obviously believe in this very deeply. We just saw this, um, um, Um, obviously with, with Keys leaving there and, and being somewhere else, they, they, the, the, the belief is that there is very little you can do to actually move the needle, other than writing the check. And then, in the best case, you stay out of the way, and that's why they believe that board sea…

AI assessment note: “there is very little you can do to actually move the needle, other than writing the check”

Q I totally agree with you. I think the best is you make your own luck. Um, If we'd like isolate a point in your life that was a needle moving moment for your career, when you reflect, what do you think the most needle moving moment was? Was it the move to the US? Was it selling Postmates? What was that? Ah, that was the big move.

A You know, definitely moving to the US, um, was, was, it was a huge part. And I think it's important to understand I wanted to be in the US almost all my entire life. I remember very vividly, um, this is actually a great story. So, um, What, what happened is that I was obsessed with computers, um, pretty much, pretty much as long as I can remember, and I love the idea that I can just, I can just hack things and something, you know, something, something, something comes back from the screen. When we first got internet access, I, I incurred these, these bills of, like, ridiculous amounts of money, and, and I grew up in a fairly modest house, and my, my, my mom had Sometimes three jobs, so we didn't have a lot of money, and back then, if you remember, it's a dial-up, so you pay, um, you pay per minute, or you pay per hour, depending on your plan, and the, the closest internet provider was sort of a, Sort of like a regional call. So it was not quite long distance, but it was, it was quite something. And I don't, I can't even tell you what I did online, to be honest. Um, because back then somebody just told you about a website, you would discover it. And anyway, I, after a while I decided that I could run, uh, uh, you know, a BBS, like a little software that allowed other people to connect to, to connect to my computer. And obviously that was a very boring affair because only one oth…

AI assessment note: “definitely moving to the US, um, was, was, it was a huge part.”

Q Totally agree with you there in terms of, often it's not knowing what to do right, it's knowing what not to do. The mistakes that one normally makes. You said about selecting the VCs and having the ability to. With the ability to select, how do you select the VCs you work with?

A I think you, everybody has, if you ran a company for 10 years, you have met people that you maybe always wish you would have worked with. And, um, for me personally, Mark, Mark Andreessen was, was one of my heroes. This is a guy whose software I grew up with, whose, whose, whose, whose, uh, whose browser arguably changed how we access information. I pitched him four times or five times the entire firm, uh, uh, with Postmates. They were smart enough to say no, but it, it, it, it was, it was, it was amazing to, to, to, um, um, To, to, to be able to just, just reach out and, and, and I think there was a mutual feeling from his side. He, he, he, he was excited, um, to work with me as well.

AI assessment note: “met people that you maybe always wish you would have worked with”

Q Is Apple not best placed? If you think about being closest to the source as being fundamental, is Apple's monopoly on hardware and phone usage and device, not putting them best place to run these models locally on device.

A A couple of more hot takes that most people will not agree with, and I'm happy to be wrong. I think the phone is dead. That's the first problem that, that will, that will, that will, that will happen very soon. I believe that AI happened too fast and Apple is caught in sort of the inventor's dilemma here. Uh, I'm sure that they could eventually put an additional chip in an iPhone that does inference and, And, and, and allows you to run these models more efficiently, but I, I, I doubt that it will be interesting enough for the group of people that I have in mind and, and, and that, that want to tinker with, with the technology, so.

AI assessment note: “Apple is caught in sort of the inventor's dilemma here.”

Q And we figured it out in the end and we made it happen. I want to go back to your childhood. I think great entrepreneurs are shaped early. Take me to your parents and your teachers. If they were to describe a young basti in Germany, what would they have said about you and how you were?

A Well, first of all, you know, in 1919 77, that's when I was born, 1980 in Germany, you have to understand everything was still black and white. Right? So, you know, what, what, um, I mean, like, it was, it was sort of, it was sort of a different environment than, than we have today. But what would they say? Probably a very curious child. You know, I like to play a lot. Um, I think I was always onto something. As a matter of fact, I think I was out of the house most of the time. I think as soon as I could get out of the house, I would just, I would just be somewhere. Uh, play in the forest or run around. You know, I had a group of friends. We, Did exhibitions and then, you know, that sort of stuff.

AI assessment note: “what would they say? Probably a very curious child.”

Q Other than Dara, which CEO do you most respect and why?

A Oh man, I can only name one, because if you, if you now name another one, then it's a can of worms, right? Other than Dara, I believe that the, that the world would be a better place if we had more founder CEOs. And I hope that the founder CEOs that we have, that they stay CEOs for the long time. Patrick at Stripe, uh, Zach at Plate, uh, Max at Affirm. These are all just remarkable, remarkable people that run their companies so well, and, and that had to fight battles and, and, and overcome all sorts of challenges, whatever they are, which each of them, I mean, in Zach's Place you were bought. The acquisition couldn't go through. You have to go back and build again. I think that those are just like, those are just like, if these guys are ever in, well, Patrick in that case, and Zach, if they run their companies publicly, they will, the books will be written about their leadership style. I'm certain of that.

AI assessment note: “I can only name one, because if you now name another one, then it's”

Q Totally agree with you there in terms of, often it's not knowing what to do right, it's knowing what not to do. The mistakes that one normally makes. You said about selecting the VCs and having the ability to. With the ability to select, how do you select the VCs you work with?

A I think you, everybody has, if you ran a company for 10 years, you have met people that you maybe always wish you would have worked with. And, um, for me personally, Mark, Mark Andreessen was, was one of my heroes. This is a guy whose software I grew up with, whose, whose, whose, whose, uh, whose browser arguably changed how we access information. I pitched him four times or five times the entire firm, uh, uh, with Postmates. They were smart enough to say no, but it, it, it, it was, it was, it was amazing to, to, to, um, um, To, to, to be able to just, just reach out and, and, and I think there was a mutual feeling from his side. He, he, he, he was excited, um, to work with me as well.

AI assessment note: “met people that you maybe always wish you would have worked with”

Q Can I ask you, I think one challenging or interesting element is financial position changes with your second company. If the first was successful, you, you know, you no longer need it financially to work. How does starting a company Rich. Change your mindset, approach, ambition the second time around. What's different in that way?

A Well, that is a fair question. I had, I had very little when I started Postmates and we put it all on that thing, right? And, and that may have to do a little bit with like, we, we, we felt like we had to push that little carriage up for up the mountain for 10 years, right? And at any moment, there were, there was not a moment in time when we were convinced that That we've made it. So, but we had the ultimate energy because, because this, because we felt that, we felt that this is what, what had to, had to get done. But, At least 50% of that was also a chip that we had on our shoulder that we wanted to prove that we can do this, and that is something that all the money in the world, I think, can't compensate for, right? It, it, it, that's why people strive for greatness, that's why people strive to do certain things, because there, there, there is a desire to, to do something.

AI assessment note: “that is something that all the money in the world, I think, can't compensate for”

Q Why? Like, why could you not have done more, Basi? You're a steady founder. You're an ambitious guy. You're a great CEO. Was it tempting to go it alone?

A Yeah, absolutely. But, um, and, and I, I had a great belief that, that, that we could continue as a standalone company, but ultimately, you know, I think I put the ego a little aside and, uh, and, and, and it's not, it's not easy. I wanted to be CEO of a publicly traded company. I was looking forward to that because I, it would have been this, this really nice, and I think I would do a great job at it and I may get another shot at it. But, um, it, it just, it just wasn't supposed to be, and I think, and I think overall, look, you, you have to, here's another thing that I think people don't fully understand. We negotiated the deal so well, there was no color on the deal. By the time the deal closed, it was almost five billion dollars. Right. So, uh, which is amazing. And you asked.

AI assessment note: “I think I put the ego a little aside”

Q Can I ask you, I think one challenging or interesting element is financial position changes with your second company. If the first was successful, you, you know, you no longer need it financially to work. How does starting a company Rich. Change your mindset, approach, ambition the second time around. What's different in that way?

A Well, that is a fair question. I had, I had very little when I started Postmates and we put it all on that thing, right? And, and that may have to do a little bit with like, we, we, we felt like we had to push that little carriage up for up the mountain for 10 years, right? And at any moment, there were, there was not a moment in time when we were convinced that That we've made it. So, but we had the ultimate energy because, because this, because we felt that, we felt that this is what, what had to, had to get done. But, At least 50% of that was also a chip that we had on our shoulder that we wanted to prove that we can do this, and that is something that all the money in the world, I think, can't compensate for, right? It, it, it, that's why people strive for greatness, that's why people strive to do certain things, because there, there, there is a desire to, to do something.

AI assessment note: “that is something that all the money in the world, I think, can't compensate for”

Q I totally agree with you. I think the best is you make your own luck. Um, If we'd like isolate a point in your life that was a needle moving moment for your career, when you reflect, what do you think the most needle moving moment was? Was it the move to the US? Was it selling Postmates? What was that? Ah, that was the big move.

A You know, definitely moving to the US, um, was, was, it was a huge part. And I think it's important to understand I wanted to be in the US almost all my entire life. I remember very vividly, um, this is actually a great story. So, um, What, what happened is that I was obsessed with computers, um, pretty much, pretty much as long as I can remember, and I love the idea that I can just, I can just hack things and something, you know, something, something, something comes back from the screen. When we first got internet access, I, I incurred these, these bills of, like, ridiculous amounts of money, and, and I grew up in a fairly modest house, and my, my, my mom had Sometimes three jobs, so we didn't have a lot of money, and back then, if you remember, it's a dial-up, so you pay, um, you pay per minute, or you pay per hour, depending on your plan, and the, the closest internet provider was sort of a, Sort of like a regional call. So it was not quite long distance, but it was, it was quite something. And I don't, I can't even tell you what I did online, to be honest. Um, because back then somebody just told you about a website, you would discover it. And anyway, I, after a while I decided that I could run, uh, uh, you know, a BBS, like a little software that allowed other people to connect to, to connect to my computer. And obviously that was a very boring affair because only one oth…

AI assessment note: “definitely moving to the US, um, was, was, it was a huge part.”

Q we dive into, you know, the, the Uber acquisition, I spoke to Nabil before the show, and I'm looking at my notes now. He said that you led a team that was in wartime mode The entire history under huge stress, and that you are not a cuddly CEO. Can I ask you, what was the most memorable wartime moment in the company history of most stress that you remember?

A Oh, I think Nabila's right. There were, there were so many, um, um, but, but I, I want to say I enjoyed it. I, I, I enjoyed it tremendously because I, I really do believe that you have to measure yourself in life, and, and, and I think this, this journey of running that company for 10 years, um, absolutely did that. Um, the, the war time was defined by us being so focused and so determined to Create a successful company. We were, you have to understand, I, I truly believe that everybody who worked at Postmates loved that company from the bottom of their heart. It was, it was a group of people who couldn't, you couldn't drive us apart with, with whatever came at us. Any VC funding a competitor, Uber, threats, rumors. We, we were so focused on our mission. We were so focused Because we love the company every single day. I, I, I woke up 10 years in a row and I, and every day I couldn't believe it. I'm like, I can't believe that, that, that I get to do this and that I can be with these people. And I believe that most people felt the same.

AI assessment note: “There were, there were so many, um, um, but, but I, I want to say I enjoyed it.”

Q we dive into, you know, the, the Uber acquisition, I spoke to Nabil before the show, and I'm looking at my notes now. He said that you led a team that was in wartime mode The entire history under huge stress, and that you are not a cuddly CEO. Can I ask you, what was the most memorable wartime moment in the company history of most stress that you remember?

A Oh, I think Nabila's right. There were, there were so many, um, um, but, but I, I want to say I enjoyed it. I, I, I enjoyed it tremendously because I, I really do believe that you have to measure yourself in life, and, and, and I think this, this journey of running that company for 10 years, um, absolutely did that. Um, the, the war time was defined by us being so focused and so determined to Create a successful company. We were, you have to understand, I, I truly believe that everybody who worked at Postmates loved that company from the bottom of their heart. It was, it was a group of people who couldn't, you couldn't drive us apart with, with whatever came at us. Any VC funding a competitor, Uber, threats, rumors. We, we were so focused on our mission. We were so focused Because we love the company every single day. I, I, I woke up 10 years in a row and I, and every day I couldn't believe it. I'm like, I can't believe that, that, that I get to do this and that I can be with these people. And I believe that most people felt the same.

AI assessment note: “There were, there were so many, um, um, but, but I, I want to say I enjoyed it.”

Q How do you determine when to cut something and move on? Is there a defining metric? Like if we don't have X number of users by X date, we kill it.

A You can do it that way. And, and I'm sure there are people, uh, that are like that. Um, uh, you know, who do I know who's extremely smart and would run a company like this? Patrick and John Collison. I think they're like the perfect example. I'm, I'm sure they have a metric and, and, and, uh, I admire them and, and, and, uh, we're very fortunate to call them friends. The, the most important thing to realize is that it doesn't matter. We tend to take everything way too seriously. Like we, oh, if, if I fail, the world will think nobody cares. It takes a minute for everybody to get over it. Right? Something else will happen. Elon will tweet something and that's what we care about the minute after somebody just thought about you. So it really doesn't matter. Like there is no right or wrong way. There is nobody who knows the master plan and it really does not matter.

AI assessment note: “The, the most important thing to realize is that it doesn't matter.”

Q Dude, I love it. This is what our business is based on. No, I love it. That's what our business is based on. You, you know, I, I really appreciate that and like it. Question. One company that seems to have risen obviously above any other is OpenAI. Do you think foundational models get commoditized? And would you be a buyer of OpenAI at ninety billion?

A It's a fantastic research company is how I would describe, um, OpenAI. I think it remains to be seen if they can launch extremely successful products other than Uh, a, a chat based, uh, a chat GPT. It will be a dominant player. Um, and, and look what they did, by the way, coming out of nowhere, yet working on it for seven years, right? You, you, you didn't, you didn't catch up with Sam every week to get the status, uh, on, on what they were working on for the last six or seven years, right? So, and suddenly there's this one product and, you know, and, and, and off you go, off you go. Um, So of course they're important. I think they're a great player that is now inspiring a lot of founders and entrepreneurs to do great things and have the audacity to, to, to sort of dream in a direction that for the longest time, mostly because it was a market where if you worked in ML, you, you got a nice salary at Google, but the expectations was just that you please don't bother anyone too much. Right. So, and now suddenly you're like, you're, you're in demand. People actually listen to you. They believe that these things can work. You know, everybody wants to know what a token is. They will be a big player. I think they will be a very large company. Um, but there's other companies that I'm, that I'm, that I'm personally like more excited about, so.

AI assessment note: “there's other companies that I'm, that I'm, that I'm personally like more excited about”

Q How do you determine when to cut something and move on? Is there a defining metric? Like if we don't have X number of users by X date, we kill it.

A You can do it that way. And, and I'm sure there are people, uh, that are like that. Um, uh, you know, who do I know who's extremely smart and would run a company like this? Patrick and John Collison. I think they're like the perfect example. I'm, I'm sure they have a metric and, and, and, uh, I admire them and, and, and, uh, we're very fortunate to call them friends. The, the most important thing to realize is that it doesn't matter. We tend to take everything way too seriously. Like we, oh, if, if I fail, the world will think nobody cares. It takes a minute for everybody to get over it. Right? Something else will happen. Elon will tweet something and that's what we care about the minute after somebody just thought about you. So it really doesn't matter. Like there is no right or wrong way. There is nobody who knows the master plan and it really does not matter.

AI assessment note: “The, the most important thing to realize is that it doesn't matter.”