Jul 22, 2021 · 32m · 20vc
20VC: Jeff Immelt on Leadership Lessons from 16 Years as CEO @ GE, Incumbent Innovation; Why Some Have Failed and Other Succeeded, When Boards Have A Positive vs Negative Impact on a Company & The One Fear Startup Founders Are Allowed To Have
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of 20VC, former GE CEO Jeff Immelt discusses key leadership, governance, and crisis management lessons from his 16-year tenure leading one of the world's largest conglomerates and his subsequent transition into venture capital and startup board roles.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 31.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Harry as informed peer 3.0 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 0.9 Harry pushing back 1.4
speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:46 Rejecting consensus management dogma
Jeff forcefully rejects the touchy-feely management school doctrine that leaders should listen to everyone, calling it untrue and explaining that top performers like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are selective listeners.
Hardest push from Harry ▶ 8:33 Challenging incumbent cultural limitationsHarry directly pushes back on Jeff's self-criticism, bluntly defending him by asking if any incumbent CEO could reasonably change culture fast enough against nimble startups.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 24:41 Dispelling the thick skin executive mythJeff corrects Harry's assumption about executive resilience by flatly stating that everyone lies about having thick skin and that public criticism hurts regardless of experience.
Harry holds his own ▶ 20:56 Contrasting trust-building frameworksHarry demonstrates management expertise by presenting a structured dichotomy between starting from total trust versus zero trust, prompting Jeff to evaluate trust versus loyalty.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Harry as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Harry pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Becoming CEO of GE: The Transition and Initial Pressure | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Harry asks a broad opening question about Jeff becoming CEO of GE and how he handled the pressure. Jeff describes the public and agonizing succession process in 2000, explaining that feeling relief preceded feeling nervous. | |
| Innovation Strategy and Managing Scale in a Conglomerate | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Harry asks about strategy trade-offs regarding conglomerate scale versus Silicon Valley focus. Jeff gently schools the Silicon Valley mindset by noting that 5-6% organic growth on a $100 billion base equals $6-7 billion in new revenue per year. | |
| Challenges of Cultural Transformation and Digital Innovation | 4 | 4 | 1 | 5 | Harry explicitly pushes back in defense of Immelt, asking whether any incumbent CEO could compete with small agile startups when changing culture. Jeff acknowledges his failure in changing GE's culture fast enough and explains how he should have used joint ventures or separate stock currencies. | |
| Shifting Market Dynamics and Maintaining Leadership Conviction | 3 | 5 | 3 | 2 | Harry asks how incumbents can compete for talent and whether CEOs secretly doubt their public conviction. Jeff directly rejects modern business school touchy-feely advice to listen to everyone, arguing that top leaders must be discerning and rely only on a trusted core. | |
| Modern Management vs. Effective Execution | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Harry asks if modern management consensus culture reduces execution effectiveness. Jeff agrees and shares how he coaches startup founders to tune out selfish investor noise and maintain focus. | |
| Board Dynamics and the 'Worst Day' Test | 4 | 5 | 0 | 1 | Harry proposes that bad board dynamics stem from individual director insecurities, which Jeff agrees with. Jeff introduces his 'worst day' test for board members and quotes Jamie Dimon on directors who transfer their credibility to the CEO in a crisis. | |
| Crisis Leadership: Absorbing Fear and Communication | 5 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Harry offers his own mental model regarding trust (starting with ultimate trust vs zero trust), engaging Jeff peer-to-peer. Jeff outlines crisis principles—absorbing fear, holding two truths, and distinguishing between personal loyalty and loyalty to the company. | |
| Quarterly Expectations vs. Long-Term Value Creation | 3 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Harry asks how leaders build self-protection against public criticism. Jeff dispels the corporate trope of having thick skin, asserting that everybody lies about having thick skin and that criticism always hurts. | |
| Personal Support Systems and Peer Networks in Executive Leadership | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Harry inquires about managing founder paranoia and emotional support systems. Jeff notes that healthy paranoia is essential for founders, but emphasizes that they are only allowed to be genuinely afraid of product market fit. | |
| Quickfire Questions with Jeff Immelt | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | In a rapid-fire round, Harry asks about Jeff's GE tattoo, life advice, and personal values. Jeff offers concise, candid answers about wealth, curiosity, and persistent leadership. |
Statements from this episode (22)
Immelt: In 2000, General Electric felt a lot like Amazon
“Back in the year, 2000, GE felt a lot like Amazon.”
Immelt: Legacy companies struggle when innovation requires cultural transformation
“Things that really required not just a new idea, but also a new culture at the same time, are really hard for legacy companies.”
Immelt: I failed to change GE's culture fast enough for digital
“Where I failed was I couldn't change the culture fast enough to grab, you know, kind of the next wave of digital technologies.”
Immelt: GE should have partnered with Salesforce or Microsoft for software
“Here's what I would have done differently, you know, Harry, in all honesty, I've had four years to think about it, is I would have either bought a part of a startup company or done a joint venture with maybe salesforce.com or Microsoft and created a new co, cr…”
Immelt: Incumbents hold massive advantages over startups through existing distribution and use cases
“What legacy companies don't realize is they have the keys to the kingdom and that you own the use case really, which is, you know, like I sit with startups and they're saying, you know, I want to add 10 salespeople. And I say, you know, guys, really back in th…”
Immelt: Industrial and financial S&P 500 share fell from 40% to 15%
“In the year 2000, industrials and financial services, let's say between those two, it was 40% of the S&P 500 value. Now it's 15%, you know.”
Immelt: Listening to everyone creates as much trouble as not listening
“They teach them, like, listen to everybody. Everybody's right, you know, and if you listen to everybody, things are going to be great. That's not true, right? What's true is you can get as much trouble by listening, also in the same way trouble by listening to…”
Immelt: Musk, Bezos, and Benioff are not good listeners
“I guarantee you that if Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or Mark Benioff ever did a review, a three 60, the people around them aren't saying they're really good listeners. There's a lot of people say, They didn't listen to it, but they are listening, right? They are li…”
Immelt: Investor board input is often selfish and harms the company
“Some of the input you're getting is really selfish by the investors from their perspective, but not good for the company.”
Immelt: Twilio's Jeff Lawson excels at filtering out bad advice and distractions
“I think Jeff is awesome, and that he's a really good listener, but he doesn't listen all the time, and he doesn't listen to everybody, which I, behind the scenes, say to Jeff, I love that about you, really, is that you're discerning, you've got a nose for BS, …”
Immelt: Vet potential board members by picturing them on your worst day
“I always say to the CEO when they're bringing in board people, don't picture them today. Picture them on the worst day. Picture them, you've missed a quarter, an activist shows up, the technology doesn't work, your best person left. Picture how your board's go…”
Immelt: Good board members transfer their credibility to CEOs in crisis
“You want a board that is able to transfer their credibility, whether there is an investor or as an operator, to the leader, to the CEO, in the very worst day. And that's what a good board member should be able to do.”
Immelt: In a crisis, leaders must be fear absorbers, not accelerators
“Really when you're in the middle of a crisis, I think the first thing is you want people that absorb fear. So you want people that don't become fear accelerators. They become fear absorbers.”
Immelt: You only see true character at five minutes to midnight
“You never know anything about anybody in a good day. You can only sense them, like, at five minutes to midnight. That's when you see what's the character, the person around you. You never can see it when the sun's up.”
Jeff Immelt: Leaders should expect corporate loyalty, not personal devotion
“Like to me, trust is not loyalty. People confuse trust and loyalty. I never expected people to be loyal to me. I expected them to be loyal to the company, right? To be loyal, put the company first.”
Immelt: GE Capital Was the World's Largest Finance Company in 2008
“But we were the world's biggest finance company when Lehman Brothers went bankrupt.”
Immelt: No other leadership team on earth could have saved GE in 2008
“We made it to shore, we saved the company, we preserved the businesses, and I would say to people, look, no other team on earth could have done what we did.”
Immelt: Everyone lies about having thick skin; nobody actually does
“The other pieces I say is this is something that people, everybody lies about. Everybody lies and says, I've got thick skin. Nobody has thick skin. Sorry, nobody has thick skin.”
Immelt: Startup founders are only allowed to fear losing product-market fit
“In other words, if you're starting a company, you're really only allowed to be afraid of one thing, product market fit. That's it. We can help fill in the people. We can help fill in, you know, the funding. We can help fill in all those other things. But be af…”