May 11, 2021 · 40m · 20vc
20VC: Qualtrics Founder, Ryan Smith on The 2 Hour Decision Whether To Sell Qualtrics for $8Bn in Cash, Why Tying Your Identity To Your Company Will Never Make You Happy and His Relationship To Risk, Wealth and Responsibility as a Result
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In this episode of 20VC, Qualtrics co-founder and Utah Jazz owner Ryan Smith joins Harry Stebbings to discuss scaling enterprise software, evaluating high-stakes $8 billion exit decisions, and preserving personal identity outside of corporate success.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 27.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Harry as informed peer 3.1 Guest teaching 4.7 Guest disagreement 1.1 Harry pushing back 1.4
speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 3:36 Premise rejection on startup aha moments
Ryan explicitly rejects Harry's opening question about an 'aha moment,' arguing that Qualtrics never had a tipping point and was built purely through perpetual push and paranoia.
Hardest push from Harry ▶ 18:11 Challenging acquisition as a one-way doorHarry pushes back on the assumption that selling the company for $8B cash was an irreversible one-way door, prompting Ryan to explain how they spun it back out.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:49 Reframing identity and business happinessRyan educates Harry on the dangers of tying personal identity to business progression, warning that tech will consume founders unless they find grounding elsewhere.
Harry holds his own ▶ 17:15 Citing guest's Sunday thoughts on regretHarry demonstrates deep preparation by bringing up Ryan's specific tweet quoting Trevor Noah on fearing regret over failure, setting up an insightful discussion on risk.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Harry as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Harry pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Founding Qualtrics and the Mindset of Perpetual Growth | 2 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Harry opens with a standard question about the founding 'aha moment'. Ryan gently rejects the premise, explaining that Qualtrics never had a single tipping point but was driven by continuous push and paranoia. | |
| Separating Personal Identity from Business Success | 2 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Harry opens up about his own struggles with constant forward-looking ambition. Ryan reframes the topic by educating Harry on the necessity of decoupling personal identity and happiness from company outcomes. | |
| Long-Term Horizon and Pacing in Business and Sports | 2 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Harry asks how Ryan changed his actions after realizing his career timeline, and later asks for advice as someone who has been tied to a studio for years. Ryan shares insights from Clayton Christensen and his experience pacing through sports ownership and the SAP acquisition. | |
| Risk Evaluation, One-Way Doors, and Heart-Driven Leadership | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Harry probes into risk evaluation and the balance between head and heart in decision-making. Ryan explains his framework of one-way versus two-way doors and sharing advice from Tom Brady. | |
| Navigating Regret and Key Milestones in Qualtrics' History | 5 | 4 | 1 | 5 | Harry demonstrates strong prep by citing Ryan's tweet quoting Trevor Noah on regret. When Ryan describes the $8B sale to SAP, Harry pushes back on the assumption that selling is strictly a one-way door, prompting Ryan to clarify how they spun the business back out. | |
| The Reality of Financial Exits and Key Support Networks | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Harry asks about the emotional reality of a massive cash exit. Ryan offers a frank, unglamorous perspective, describing the day the wire hit as the most underwhelming moment of his career until he saw its impact on employees. | |
| Leadership Weaknesses, Complementary Partners, and Instilling Grit in Children | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Harry uses research from Ryan's brother Jared to ask Ryan directly about his personal weaknesses. Ryan responds candidly while discussing how to raise grounded children despite financial success. | |
| Ryan Smith's Unconventional Path: From High School Dropout to BYU | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Harry shares a vulnerable story about being a childhood carer, leading Ryan to detail his unconventional backstory of dropping out of high school, teaching English in Korea, and completing an LDS mission in Mexico before entering BYU. | |
| Quickfire Round: Productivity Hacks, Board Dynamics, and Personal Legacy | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Harry conducts a quickfire round informed by insider tips from Jared Smith and Ryan's public writings on legacy. Ryan shares practical life hacks like 'doubling up' tasks and reflects on core values. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Smith: Qualtrics never had a singular 'aha moment' or tipping point
“With Qualtrics, I don't think there's ever really been an aha moment. There hasn't been this tipping point where it like all worked. It's been what I would call probably more push than pull the whole way.”
Smith: Early basement days of Qualtrics were his worst business experience
“Because the basement sucked. It was like the worst time I've ever had, like, running a business”
Ryan Smith: Tying happiness to company performance makes founders miserable
“If your happiness is tied up in your business, you're never going to be happy because it's nothing but problems, whether it's customer problems, whether it's Employee problems, whether it's just frustration, like, you've got to find happiness outside, and it's…”
Ryan Smith commits to running the Utah Jazz for 35 years
“I'm doing this for 35 years. The last person who ran the team had it for 35 years. I'm doing this for 35 years, and really, that's my thought. Like, we're doing it for that long.”
Smith: 20% of Qualtrics staff voiced objections after SAP acquisition
“We had 20% of our employees come in and be like, hey, I didn't sign up for this.”
Ryan Smith: Giving away equity is irreversible, whereas hiring is reversible
“So if you're giving out equity of your company, it's a one way door. You can't get it back. You know, oftentimes if you're hiring someone, it can be a two way door. If it doesn't work out, you part ways.”
Ryan Smith had two hours to decide on SAP's $8B offer
“I had two hours to decide whether we're selling to SAP for eight billion dollars cash.”
Qualtrics turned down a $500M cash acquisition offer in 2011
“In 2011, someone offered us five hundred million dollars cash to sell our business. And we were at this point where we turned it down.”
Qualtrics raised venture capital to de-risk after rejecting a buyout
“We actually raised venture capital because we turned down an offer, and we wanted to be able to live with ourselves.”
Ryan Smith: Receiving SAP's $8B cash payout was underwhelming
“The day that the wires hit, I remember sitting, we were at a president's club, so we were at a sales retreat with all of our people, and you could kind of look around, and you could see everyone's phones, right? Like, people were, like, with their spouses, lik…”
Ryan Smith: Jared Smith managed eight executives at WordPerfect aged 18
“He started working at WordPerfect as a product guy at 16, and he had to, you know, he had to figure it out. Like, he was a whiz kid. He was managing a team of eight executives at 18 years old”
Ryan Smith: Younger generations do not work or grind as hard
“One of the problems I see in part of our younger generation, they don't grind. They don't grind the way that we have.”
Ryan Smith: Stack family and work commitments into single time blocks
“You'll always see me doubling up everything I do. Like, if I have a meeting that I need to go do, I'll just bring them with me to the next meeting. If I've got to go to a game, I've always got people with me that I was supposed to meet with, and we just do it …”
Ryan Smith: Startups should recruit board members with past failures
“Oftentimes, we bring board members in who life's only gone good for, and it's one of our problems in tech, is like, we need to bring people in that, you know, have some battle wounds, and like, maybe there was some successes that happened, but also some things…”