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May 22, 2020 · 32m · 20vc

20VC: TripActions CEO Ariel Cohen on The Future of Business and Personal Travel & Layoffs; How To Do Them The Right Way & Maintain Company Culture and Morale

Ariel Cohen · 23m spoken Harry Stebbings · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The 20 Minute VC, TripActions co-founder and CEO Ariel Cohen joins Harry Stebbings to discuss navigating a 90 percent revenue drop during the COVID-19 pandemic, executing remote layoffs, and preserving organizational culture. Cohen also offers key insights on founder psychology, venture capital partnerships, and his long-term optimism for the recovery of corporate travel.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 25.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Harry as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 2.9 Guest disagreement 0.8 Harry pushing back 1.3
05100:0010:0020:0030:002:17–5:05 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Podcast Opening and Guest Welcome Harry introduces Ariel and sets an appreciative tone, asking standard founder background questions. Ariel outlines his career path from Israel to Silicon Valley and the creation of TripActions without friction.5:05–8:45 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 TripActions' Immediate COVID-19 Response and Layoffs Harry broaches the severe impact of COVID-19 on travel and asks how TripActions responded. Ariel reframes video conferencing as a temporary workaround rather than a permanent substitute for human travel, detailing immediate customer-facing pivot actions.8:45–11:11 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Executing Layoffs Remotely via Zoom and Culture Impact Harry asks a direct question about executing layoffs remotely over Zoom. Ariel gives candid insights into the emotional limitations and transactional nature of conducting layoffs via video conference.11:11–13:20 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Strategic Sizing of Headcount Cuts Amidst Uncertainty Harry asks how Ariel decided on the scale of headcount cuts given timeline uncertainty. Ariel educates on founder psychology during crises, advising peers to drop optimism and plan against a 24-month horizon.13:21–18:00 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Preserving Company Culture and Transparent Communication Harry asks specifically what tactics Ariel used to maintain morale and culture. Ariel corrects common misconceptions about culture, emphasizing that it stems from mission alignment rather than perks like baristas or ping pong tables.18:00–20:04 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Founder Psychology, Coping Mechanisms, and VC Support Harry explores founder mental health and asks what top venture investors do to support founders during crises. Ariel explains that effective investors offer constructive challenge grounded in underlying trust.20:04–27:23 · Harry as informed peer 4/10 Future of Business Travel and Strategic Capital Raising Harry probes whether founders should accept funding despite heavy valuation dilution. Ariel strongly rejects the premise of optimizing for dilution, arguing investor alignment and debt structure terms matter far more.27:23–30:31 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Quickfire Round: Books, Superpowers, and Company Vision Harry conducts a rapid-fire round covering favorite books, company building strengths and weaknesses, and long-term vision. Ariel responds warmly and collaboratively to conclude the episode.2:17–5:05 · Guest teaching 1/10 Podcast Opening and Guest Welcome Harry introduces Ariel and sets an appreciative tone, asking standard founder background questions. Ariel outlines his career path from Israel to Silicon Valley and the creation of TripActions without friction.5:05–8:45 · Guest teaching 3/10 TripActions' Immediate COVID-19 Response and Layoffs Harry broaches the severe impact of COVID-19 on travel and asks how TripActions responded. Ariel reframes video conferencing as a temporary workaround rather than a permanent substitute for human travel, detailing immediate customer-facing pivot actions.8:45–11:11 · Guest teaching 3/10 Executing Layoffs Remotely via Zoom and Culture Impact Harry asks a direct question about executing layoffs remotely over Zoom. Ariel gives candid insights into the emotional limitations and transactional nature of conducting layoffs via video conference.11:11–13:20 · Guest teaching 4/10 Strategic Sizing of Headcount Cuts Amidst Uncertainty Harry asks how Ariel decided on the scale of headcount cuts given timeline uncertainty. Ariel educates on founder psychology during crises, advising peers to drop optimism and plan against a 24-month horizon.13:21–18:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Preserving Company Culture and Transparent Communication Harry asks specifically what tactics Ariel used to maintain morale and culture. Ariel corrects common misconceptions about culture, emphasizing that it stems from mission alignment rather than perks like baristas or ping pong tables.18:00–20:04 · Guest teaching 3/10 Founder Psychology, Coping Mechanisms, and VC Support Harry explores founder mental health and asks what top venture investors do to support founders during crises. Ariel explains that effective investors offer constructive challenge grounded in underlying trust.20:04–27:23 · Guest teaching 5/10 Future of Business Travel and Strategic Capital Raising Harry probes whether founders should accept funding despite heavy valuation dilution. Ariel strongly rejects the premise of optimizing for dilution, arguing investor alignment and debt structure terms matter far more.27:23–30:31 · Guest teaching 1/10 Quickfire Round: Books, Superpowers, and Company Vision Harry conducts a rapid-fire round covering favorite books, company building strengths and weaknesses, and long-term vision. Ariel responds warmly and collaboratively to conclude the episode.2:17–5:05 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Podcast Opening and Guest Welcome Harry introduces Ariel and sets an appreciative tone, asking standard founder background questions. Ariel outlines his career path from Israel to Silicon Valley and the creation of TripActions without friction.5:05–8:45 · Guest disagreement 1/10 TripActions' Immediate COVID-19 Response and Layoffs Harry broaches the severe impact of COVID-19 on travel and asks how TripActions responded. Ariel reframes video conferencing as a temporary workaround rather than a permanent substitute for human travel, detailing immediate customer-facing pivot actions.8:45–11:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Executing Layoffs Remotely via Zoom and Culture Impact Harry asks a direct question about executing layoffs remotely over Zoom. Ariel gives candid insights into the emotional limitations and transactional nature of conducting layoffs via video conference.11:11–13:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Strategic Sizing of Headcount Cuts Amidst Uncertainty Harry asks how Ariel decided on the scale of headcount cuts given timeline uncertainty. Ariel educates on founder psychology during crises, advising peers to drop optimism and plan against a 24-month horizon.13:21–18:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Preserving Company Culture and Transparent Communication Harry asks specifically what tactics Ariel used to maintain morale and culture. Ariel corrects common misconceptions about culture, emphasizing that it stems from mission alignment rather than perks like baristas or ping pong tables.18:00–20:04 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Founder Psychology, Coping Mechanisms, and VC Support Harry explores founder mental health and asks what top venture investors do to support founders during crises. Ariel explains that effective investors offer constructive challenge grounded in underlying trust.20:04–27:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Future of Business Travel and Strategic Capital Raising Harry probes whether founders should accept funding despite heavy valuation dilution. Ariel strongly rejects the premise of optimizing for dilution, arguing investor alignment and debt structure terms matter far more.27:23–30:31 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Quickfire Round: Books, Superpowers, and Company Vision Harry conducts a rapid-fire round covering favorite books, company building strengths and weaknesses, and long-term vision. Ariel responds warmly and collaboratively to conclude the episode.2:17–5:05 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Podcast Opening and Guest Welcome Harry introduces Ariel and sets an appreciative tone, asking standard founder background questions. Ariel outlines his career path from Israel to Silicon Valley and the creation of TripActions without friction.5:05–8:45 · Harry pushing back 1/10 TripActions' Immediate COVID-19 Response and Layoffs Harry broaches the severe impact of COVID-19 on travel and asks how TripActions responded. Ariel reframes video conferencing as a temporary workaround rather than a permanent substitute for human travel, detailing immediate customer-facing pivot actions.8:45–11:11 · Harry pushing back 2/10 Executing Layoffs Remotely via Zoom and Culture Impact Harry asks a direct question about executing layoffs remotely over Zoom. Ariel gives candid insights into the emotional limitations and transactional nature of conducting layoffs via video conference.11:11–13:20 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Strategic Sizing of Headcount Cuts Amidst Uncertainty Harry asks how Ariel decided on the scale of headcount cuts given timeline uncertainty. Ariel educates on founder psychology during crises, advising peers to drop optimism and plan against a 24-month horizon.13:21–18:00 · Harry pushing back 2/10 Preserving Company Culture and Transparent Communication Harry asks specifically what tactics Ariel used to maintain morale and culture. Ariel corrects common misconceptions about culture, emphasizing that it stems from mission alignment rather than perks like baristas or ping pong tables.18:00–20:04 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Founder Psychology, Coping Mechanisms, and VC Support Harry explores founder mental health and asks what top venture investors do to support founders during crises. Ariel explains that effective investors offer constructive challenge grounded in underlying trust.20:04–27:23 · Harry pushing back 3/10 Future of Business Travel and Strategic Capital Raising Harry probes whether founders should accept funding despite heavy valuation dilution. Ariel strongly rejects the premise of optimizing for dilution, arguing investor alignment and debt structure terms matter far more.27:23–30:31 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Quickfire Round: Books, Superpowers, and Company Vision Harry conducts a rapid-fire round covering favorite books, company building strengths and weaknesses, and long-term vision. Ariel responds warmly and collaboratively to conclude the episode.

speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Harry 93.8% · guest 6.2%0:00 · Harry 93.8% · guest 6.2%3:00 · Harry 18.2% · guest 81.8%3:00 · Harry 18.2% · guest 81.8%6:00 · Harry 8.7% · guest 91.3%6:00 · Harry 8.7% · guest 91.3%9:00 · Harry 11.2% · guest 88.8%9:00 · Harry 11.2% · guest 88.8%12:00 · Harry 10.9% · guest 89.1%12:00 · Harry 10.9% · guest 89.1%15:00 · Harry 0% · guest 100%15:00 · Harry 0% · guest 100%18:00 · Harry 19.9% · guest 80.1%18:00 · Harry 19.9% · guest 80.1%21:00 · Harry 20.6% · guest 79.4%21:00 · Harry 20.6% · guest 79.4%24:00 · Harry 12.8% · guest 87.2%24:00 · Harry 12.8% · guest 87.2%27:00 · Harry 20% · guest 80%27:00 · Harry 20% · guest 80%30:00 · Harry 76.9% · guest 23.1%30:00 · Harry 76.9% · guest 23.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 24:05 Rejecting dilution-first thinking

Ariel forcefully pushes back on Harry's framing regarding dilution, insisting that founders should never optimize for dilution in peacetime or wartime.

 Hardest push from Harry ▶ 23:20 Pressing on cash vs dilution trade-off

Harry directly challenges Ariel on whether founders should take capital when available despite steep dilution hits during uncertain economic conditions.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:00 Educating on crisis horizon planning

Ariel counsels founders to discard typical startup optimism during crises, advising a 24-month impact horizon planning model over short-term estimates.

 Harry holds his own ▶ 25:24 Drilling into venture debt structures

Harry demonstrates financial market knowledge by citing recent debt rounds raised by Airbnb and Expedia to question Ariel on TripActions' debt strategy.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicHarry as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementHarry pushing backWhy
Podcast Opening and Guest Welcome 1100 Harry introduces Ariel and sets an appreciative tone, asking standard founder background questions. Ariel outlines his career path from Israel to Silicon Valley and the creation of TripActions without friction.
TripActions' Immediate COVID-19 Response and Layoffs 2311 Harry broaches the severe impact of COVID-19 on travel and asks how TripActions responded. Ariel reframes video conferencing as a temporary workaround rather than a permanent substitute for human travel, detailing immediate customer-facing pivot actions.
Executing Layoffs Remotely via Zoom and Culture Impact 2312 Harry asks a direct question about executing layoffs remotely over Zoom. Ariel gives candid insights into the emotional limitations and transactional nature of conducting layoffs via video conference.
Strategic Sizing of Headcount Cuts Amidst Uncertainty 3411 Harry asks how Ariel decided on the scale of headcount cuts given timeline uncertainty. Ariel educates on founder psychology during crises, advising peers to drop optimism and plan against a 24-month horizon.
Preserving Company Culture and Transparent Communication 3312 Harry asks specifically what tactics Ariel used to maintain morale and culture. Ariel corrects common misconceptions about culture, emphasizing that it stems from mission alignment rather than perks like baristas or ping pong tables.
Founder Psychology, Coping Mechanisms, and VC Support 2301 Harry explores founder mental health and asks what top venture investors do to support founders during crises. Ariel explains that effective investors offer constructive challenge grounded in underlying trust.
Future of Business Travel and Strategic Capital Raising 4523 Harry probes whether founders should accept funding despite heavy valuation dilution. Ariel strongly rejects the premise of optimizing for dilution, arguing investor alignment and debt structure terms matter far more.
Quickfire Round: Books, Superpowers, and Company Vision 1100 Harry conducts a rapid-fire round covering favorite books, company building strengths and weaknesses, and long-term vision. Ariel responds warmly and collaboratively to conclude the episode.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Supported
TripActions Laid Off 350 Employees in March 2020
“This company today sadly had to lay off 350 people in March”
Harry Stebbings May 22, 2020 ▶ 0:18
Assertion Partly supported
TripActions Raised Over $980M From Lightspeed, a16z, and Zeev Ventures
“To date, Ariel has raised over nine hundred and eighty million dollars for TripActions from some of the best in the business, including Lightspeed, Auron's Eve, and Andreessen Horowitz, to name a few.”
Harry Stebbings May 22, 2020 ▶ 0:33
Assertion Supported
Ariel Cohen Sold Previous Startup StreamOnce to Jive After Nine Months
“Started a fairly small startup with my co-founder, Ilan Twig. We sold it back to Jive very fast after nine months”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 3:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TripActions Platform Usage Dropped by 90% During COVID-19
“Obviously, the usage has dropped down by 90%.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 8:06
Insight
Ariel Cohen: Video Conferencing Is Transactional and Eliminates Body Language
“Video conference, conferencing by definition is very transactional, right? You start a meeting, you end the meeting, you don't really know what happens in the five minutes afterwards, the five minutes before that, all of the body language, and so on.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 9:41
Assertion Supported
TripActions Was Among the First Tech Unicorns to Conduct COVID Layoffs
“We are one of the first, I would say, unicorns to do layoffs, just because usually I think in TripActions we are executing really well.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 10:41
Insight
Founders Should Double Estimated Crisis Timelines When Sizing Budget Cuts
“And actually, if you think that it's a three-month crisis, it's better to think that it's six-month crisis. If you think it's six months, think that it's 12 months.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 12:50
Disclosure
TripActions Planned for a 24-Month Financial Impact Horizon During COVID
“I've approached it as it's probably a twelve-month crisis, which then you have additional 12 months of implications. So I kind of saw it through a length of 24 months. That was my approach to this crisis.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 12:57
Disclosure
TripActions Shares Cash Reserves and Burn Rates With All Employees
“Employees in trip actions all the time knew how much money do we have? How much we burn? On what do we burn the money?”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 17:02
Assertion Supported
TripActions Faced a Major US Airline Dispute Crisis in Late 2018
“We had a year and a half ago, we had a major crisis where we had a certain fight with one of the airlines in the US. And until we solved that issue, and now we actually became really good friends with this airline, but until we solved it, we were actually oper…”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 18:28
Prediction Partly held up
Ariel Cohen Predicts Business Travel Will Rebound Stronger Post-COVID
“I have strong belief that people, once it is done, will get back to travel, to business travel, even in a stronger way.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 22:25
Disclosure
TripActions Raised Debt in February 2020 to Fund Payments Product
“We closed a certain debt facility to finance our payments product just before COVID in February, actually, and so on, but I'm constantly looking at what we have.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 26:23
Disclosure
TripActions Continued Hiring for Sales and R&D Despite COVID Layoffs
“We've done layoffs, but we are still hiring in some departments. We are hiring in the enterprise sales team. We are hiring very selectively in the product R&D team and so on.”
Ariel Cohen May 22, 2020 ▶ 26:53
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