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Feb 26, 2018 · 29m · 20vc

20VC: Why The Current Crop Of VC Does Not Understand Design, Why Product Market Fit Is A Liquid Not A Solid & How Graduates Can Optimise Their Career for Personal Development with Steve Vassallo, General Partner @ Foundation Capital

Steve Vassallo · 20m spoken Harry Stebbings · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The 20 Minute VC, host Harry Stebbings interviews Steve Vassallo, General Partner at Foundation Capital, discussing the evolution of design in venture capital, strategies for designer-founders, career advice for early-stage professionals, and why product-market fit is dynamic rather than static.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 28.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Harry as informed peer 1.7 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.0 Harry pushing back 0.6
05100:0010:0020:002:26–5:41 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Steve Vassallo's Journey into Venture Capital Harry opens with conversational questions regarding Steve's transition into venture capital and career drivers. Steve explains his journey as an accidental VC who joined Foundation Capital after a background in robotics and IDEO.5:41–11:39 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Writing 'The Way to Design' & Empowering Designer Founders Harry cites the Designer Fund and SaaS dynamics to ask how VCs appreciate design. Steve critiques traditional VCs for taking a superficial approach to design, treating it merely as drapes and drop shadows.11:47–15:41 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Why Building a Great Product Isn't Enough Harry brings up Reid Hoffman's quote on being embarrassed by V1 and Eric Ries' lean startup doctrine. Steve reframes the issue by pointing out failure modes in lightweight prototypes and championing Joe Gebbia's minimum awesome product.15:41–19:32 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Career Advice for Young Graduates Entering the Workforce Harry asks how fresh graduates should navigate choices between corporates, startups, and founding. Steve presents his efficient frontier framework, advising graduates to either ride a rocket or start one while avoiding middle-ground startups where resumes go to die.19:32–23:28 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Common Mistakes First-Time Founders Make Harry inquires about common founder mistakes and measuring product market fit. Steve corrects the common view of product market fit as a static moon landing, explaining that it is actually a liquid requiring repeated execution.23:28–26:48 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Special Quick-Fire Round: The Trey Vassallo Edition Harry presents a custom quick-fire round crafted by Steve's wife Trey. Steve lightheartedly shares personal stories regarding his oscilloscope romance, growing up as child nine of ten, and carrying his seventh-grade business card.26:50–28:07 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Foundation Capital's Investment in For Us All Harry asks about Steve's latest public investment in For Us All. Steve outlines the market thesis behind bringing accessible 401k and retirement plans to small businesses.2:26–5:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 Steve Vassallo's Journey into Venture Capital Harry opens with conversational questions regarding Steve's transition into venture capital and career drivers. Steve explains his journey as an accidental VC who joined Foundation Capital after a background in robotics and IDEO.5:41–11:39 · Guest teaching 3/10 Writing 'The Way to Design' & Empowering Designer Founders Harry cites the Designer Fund and SaaS dynamics to ask how VCs appreciate design. Steve critiques traditional VCs for taking a superficial approach to design, treating it merely as drapes and drop shadows.11:47–15:41 · Guest teaching 4/10 Why Building a Great Product Isn't Enough Harry brings up Reid Hoffman's quote on being embarrassed by V1 and Eric Ries' lean startup doctrine. Steve reframes the issue by pointing out failure modes in lightweight prototypes and championing Joe Gebbia's minimum awesome product.15:41–19:32 · Guest teaching 3/10 Career Advice for Young Graduates Entering the Workforce Harry asks how fresh graduates should navigate choices between corporates, startups, and founding. Steve presents his efficient frontier framework, advising graduates to either ride a rocket or start one while avoiding middle-ground startups where resumes go to die.19:32–23:28 · Guest teaching 4/10 Common Mistakes First-Time Founders Make Harry inquires about common founder mistakes and measuring product market fit. Steve corrects the common view of product market fit as a static moon landing, explaining that it is actually a liquid requiring repeated execution.23:28–26:48 · Guest teaching 1/10 Special Quick-Fire Round: The Trey Vassallo Edition Harry presents a custom quick-fire round crafted by Steve's wife Trey. Steve lightheartedly shares personal stories regarding his oscilloscope romance, growing up as child nine of ten, and carrying his seventh-grade business card.26:50–28:07 · Guest teaching 2/10 Foundation Capital's Investment in For Us All Harry asks about Steve's latest public investment in For Us All. Steve outlines the market thesis behind bringing accessible 401k and retirement plans to small businesses.2:26–5:41 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Steve Vassallo's Journey into Venture Capital Harry opens with conversational questions regarding Steve's transition into venture capital and career drivers. Steve explains his journey as an accidental VC who joined Foundation Capital after a background in robotics and IDEO.5:41–11:39 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Writing 'The Way to Design' & Empowering Designer Founders Harry cites the Designer Fund and SaaS dynamics to ask how VCs appreciate design. Steve critiques traditional VCs for taking a superficial approach to design, treating it merely as drapes and drop shadows.11:47–15:41 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Why Building a Great Product Isn't Enough Harry brings up Reid Hoffman's quote on being embarrassed by V1 and Eric Ries' lean startup doctrine. Steve reframes the issue by pointing out failure modes in lightweight prototypes and championing Joe Gebbia's minimum awesome product.15:41–19:32 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Career Advice for Young Graduates Entering the Workforce Harry asks how fresh graduates should navigate choices between corporates, startups, and founding. Steve presents his efficient frontier framework, advising graduates to either ride a rocket or start one while avoiding middle-ground startups where resumes go to die.19:32–23:28 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Common Mistakes First-Time Founders Make Harry inquires about common founder mistakes and measuring product market fit. Steve corrects the common view of product market fit as a static moon landing, explaining that it is actually a liquid requiring repeated execution.23:28–26:48 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Special Quick-Fire Round: The Trey Vassallo Edition Harry presents a custom quick-fire round crafted by Steve's wife Trey. Steve lightheartedly shares personal stories regarding his oscilloscope romance, growing up as child nine of ten, and carrying his seventh-grade business card.26:50–28:07 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Foundation Capital's Investment in For Us All Harry asks about Steve's latest public investment in For Us All. Steve outlines the market thesis behind bringing accessible 401k and retirement plans to small businesses.2:26–5:41 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Steve Vassallo's Journey into Venture Capital Harry opens with conversational questions regarding Steve's transition into venture capital and career drivers. Steve explains his journey as an accidental VC who joined Foundation Capital after a background in robotics and IDEO.5:41–11:39 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Writing 'The Way to Design' & Empowering Designer Founders Harry cites the Designer Fund and SaaS dynamics to ask how VCs appreciate design. Steve critiques traditional VCs for taking a superficial approach to design, treating it merely as drapes and drop shadows.11:47–15:41 · Harry pushing back 2/10 Why Building a Great Product Isn't Enough Harry brings up Reid Hoffman's quote on being embarrassed by V1 and Eric Ries' lean startup doctrine. Steve reframes the issue by pointing out failure modes in lightweight prototypes and championing Joe Gebbia's minimum awesome product.15:41–19:32 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Career Advice for Young Graduates Entering the Workforce Harry asks how fresh graduates should navigate choices between corporates, startups, and founding. Steve presents his efficient frontier framework, advising graduates to either ride a rocket or start one while avoiding middle-ground startups where resumes go to die.19:32–23:28 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Common Mistakes First-Time Founders Make Harry inquires about common founder mistakes and measuring product market fit. Steve corrects the common view of product market fit as a static moon landing, explaining that it is actually a liquid requiring repeated execution.23:28–26:48 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Special Quick-Fire Round: The Trey Vassallo Edition Harry presents a custom quick-fire round crafted by Steve's wife Trey. Steve lightheartedly shares personal stories regarding his oscilloscope romance, growing up as child nine of ten, and carrying his seventh-grade business card.26:50–28:07 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Foundation Capital's Investment in For Us All Harry asks about Steve's latest public investment in For Us All. Steve outlines the market thesis behind bringing accessible 401k and retirement plans to small businesses.

speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Harry 87.9% · guest 12.1%0:00 · Harry 87.9% · guest 12.1%3:00 · Harry 20.1% · guest 79.9%3:00 · Harry 20.1% · guest 79.9%6:00 · Harry 10.3% · guest 89.7%6:00 · Harry 10.3% · guest 89.7%9:00 · Harry 24.3% · guest 75.7%9:00 · Harry 24.3% · guest 75.7%12:00 · Harry 9.9% · guest 90.1%12:00 · Harry 9.9% · guest 90.1%15:00 · Harry 20.9% · guest 79.1%15:00 · Harry 20.9% · guest 79.1%18:00 · Harry 18% · guest 82%18:00 · Harry 18% · guest 82%21:00 · Harry 17% · guest 83%21:00 · Harry 17% · guest 83%24:00 · Harry 16.7% · guest 83.3%24:00 · Harry 16.7% · guest 83.3%27:00 · Harry 61% · guest 39%27:00 · Harry 61% · guest 39%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:20 Steve dismisses mainstream VCs as treating design as mere styling

Steve forcefully criticizes most VC firms, asserting that they fail to understand design deeply and reduce it to drapes and drop shadows.

 Hardest push from Harry ▶ 13:26 Harry counters Steve's product design emphasis with Reid Hoffman's V1 rule

Harry directly challenges Steve by contrasting design-led perfectionism with Reid Hoffman's famous advice that founders should launch early enough to feel embarrassed.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 20:46 Steve re-educates the industry on Product Market Fit as a liquid

Steve reframes a core Silicon Valley concept, teaching that Product Market Fit is a liquid requiring continuous iteration rather than a fixed moon landing.

 Harry holds his own ▶ 13:26 Harry leverages Reid Hoffman and Eric Ries frameworks to probe design timing

Harry demonstrates sharp venture capital knowledge by drawing on Reid Hoffman's V1 quote and Eric Ries' lean startup doctrine to press Steve on shipping speed.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicHarry as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementHarry pushing backWhy
Steve Vassallo's Journey into Venture Capital 1100 Harry opens with conversational questions regarding Steve's transition into venture capital and career drivers. Steve explains his journey as an accidental VC who joined Foundation Capital after a background in robotics and IDEO.
Writing 'The Way to Design' & Empowering Designer Founders 2321 Harry cites the Designer Fund and SaaS dynamics to ask how VCs appreciate design. Steve critiques traditional VCs for taking a superficial approach to design, treating it merely as drapes and drop shadows.
Why Building a Great Product Isn't Enough 3422 Harry brings up Reid Hoffman's quote on being embarrassed by V1 and Eric Ries' lean startup doctrine. Steve reframes the issue by pointing out failure modes in lightweight prototypes and championing Joe Gebbia's minimum awesome product.
Career Advice for Young Graduates Entering the Workforce 2310 Harry asks how fresh graduates should navigate choices between corporates, startups, and founding. Steve presents his efficient frontier framework, advising graduates to either ride a rocket or start one while avoiding middle-ground startups where resumes go to die.
Common Mistakes First-Time Founders Make 2421 Harry inquires about common founder mistakes and measuring product market fit. Steve corrects the common view of product market fit as a static moon landing, explaining that it is actually a liquid requiring repeated execution.
Special Quick-Fire Round: The Trey Vassallo Edition 1100 Harry presents a custom quick-fire round crafted by Steve's wife Trey. Steve lightheartedly shares personal stories regarding his oscilloscope romance, growing up as child nine of ten, and carrying his seventh-grade business card.
Foundation Capital's Investment in For Us All 1200 Harry asks about Steve's latest public investment in For Us All. Steve outlines the market thesis behind bringing accessible 401k and retirement plans to small businesses.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vassallo: VC ecosystem lacks practical resources for designer-founders
“When I looked at the venture industry that I was now part of, most of the observations were pretty high level. So there were lots of stats out there on numbers of billion dollar design founded companies or stats on LinkedIn job openings for user experience des…”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 6:16
Opinion
Vassallo: Most VC firms superficially view design as 'drapes and drop shadows'
“I think the vast majority of firms do not understand design fundamentally. I think most folks in the venture industry still think about design as sort of a, you know, as sort of the drapes and the drop shadows, as it were, as sort of styling exercises.”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 9:21
Insight
Vassallo: Designer-founders must approach business models like user experience
“And so I think most designers really need to begin to kind of step back from their sort of super strength in product design and understand that, Hey, like I also need to think about my business model in this with the same intentionality and the same focus that…”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 12:39
Insight
Vassallo: Startup ecosystem's major failure mode is shipping overly lightweight MVPs
“This notion of minimum viable product, I think, is in some senses cute to talk about. It's certainly something that I think for folks who are used to building, Cathedrals for prototypes. I think it's something that would help them in many regards, but I think …”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 14:25
Insight
Vassallo: Young workers over-optimize for initial salary over long-term mentorship
“The most common failure mode that I see for young people designers and engineers, business folks coming into the workforce is that they over optimize around title and or around salary, or around sort of very much the, sort of call them the transactional compon…”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 16:04
Insight
Vassallo: Joining mediocre small startups is where resumes go to die
“The middle point, in other words, going and joining a small startup where your friends are working because you know somebody there or because it, you know, sort of sounds like an interesting category, but you're not really sure because you haven't spent enough…”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 19:00
Insight
Vassallo: Product-market fit is liquid, not a static destination
“Product market fit is a liquid, not a solid.”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 21:08
Disclosure
Steve Vassallo Refuses to Share Pitch Decks With His VC Spouse
“When we're asked you know, can you send the deck or the diligence materials to your wife? I will outright say absolutely no. So we keep a Chinese wall between us.”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 25:31
Insight
Vassallo: Educational systems and early jobs strip away natural entrepreneurial instincts
“I believe we're all natural-born entrepreneurs. Oftentimes, it gets designed out of us by our educational systems or by the very narrow nature of our first jobs or second jobs”
Steve Vassallo Feb 26, 2018 ▶ 26:38
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