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Apr 6, 2016 · 28m · 20vc

20VC: Greylock's Sarah Tavel on What Founders Need From A Good Investor and Why Products Need To Be 10X Better & Cheaper

Sarah Tavel · 18m spoken Harry Stebbings · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The 20 Minute VC, Harry Stebbings speaks with Greylock partner Sarah Tavel about her trajectory from Bessemer investor to Pinterest product lead and Greylock partner. Tavel details her thesis on products that are 10X better and cheaper, how investors can serve as truth seekers for founders, and her early sourcing framework.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 30% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Harry as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 0.8 Harry pushing back 1.0
05100:0010:0020:002:14–4:51 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Sarah Tavel's Journey into Venture Capital Harry introduces Sarah and asks standard background questions regarding her transition into venture capital at Bessemer. Sarah shares her personal career story without any friction, and Harry adds lighthearted banter about his podcast.4:52–8:23 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Sourcing Pinterest at Bessemer Venture Partners Harry asks how Sarah identified Pinterest's early potential and whether design or metrics drove her thesis. Sarah explains the visual nature of the product and how tracking Alexa traffic confirmed user growth.8:25–14:21 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Transitioning to Operating and Joining Greylock Harry inquires about Sarah's transition back to VC and why she picked Greylock over other top-tier firms. Sarah details the distinction between active execution in product roles versus continuous active learning and apprenticeship in venture.14:21–19:43 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Founder Partnerships and VC Personal Branding as a Freemium Model When Harry brings up the concept of being founder friendly, Sarah directly pushes back on the term, reframing a VC's duty as being a truth seeker who asks tough questions. She also articulates her view of VC personal branding as a freemium model.19:48–22:43 · Harry as informed peer 5/10 Investment Focus: 10X Better and Cheaper Products Harry challenges Sarah's investment thesis that products must be both 10x better and cheaper, asking if financial savings are truly necessary if speed or external features are vastly superior. Sarah defends her thesis by explaining the difference between niche premium products and multi-billion dollar mass market companies.22:44–26:09 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Quick Fire Round Harry leads a rapid-fire question round covering books, operating experience, and hiring assistance. Sarah provides quick, structured responses in an entirely collaborative tone.2:14–4:51 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sarah Tavel's Journey into Venture Capital Harry introduces Sarah and asks standard background questions regarding her transition into venture capital at Bessemer. Sarah shares her personal career story without any friction, and Harry adds lighthearted banter about his podcast.4:52–8:23 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sourcing Pinterest at Bessemer Venture Partners Harry asks how Sarah identified Pinterest's early potential and whether design or metrics drove her thesis. Sarah explains the visual nature of the product and how tracking Alexa traffic confirmed user growth.8:25–14:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Transitioning to Operating and Joining Greylock Harry inquires about Sarah's transition back to VC and why she picked Greylock over other top-tier firms. Sarah details the distinction between active execution in product roles versus continuous active learning and apprenticeship in venture.14:21–19:43 · Guest teaching 5/10 Founder Partnerships and VC Personal Branding as a Freemium Model When Harry brings up the concept of being founder friendly, Sarah directly pushes back on the term, reframing a VC's duty as being a truth seeker who asks tough questions. She also articulates her view of VC personal branding as a freemium model.19:48–22:43 · Guest teaching 4/10 Investment Focus: 10X Better and Cheaper Products Harry challenges Sarah's investment thesis that products must be both 10x better and cheaper, asking if financial savings are truly necessary if speed or external features are vastly superior. Sarah defends her thesis by explaining the difference between niche premium products and multi-billion dollar mass market companies.22:44–26:09 · Guest teaching 2/10 Quick Fire Round Harry leads a rapid-fire question round covering books, operating experience, and hiring assistance. Sarah provides quick, structured responses in an entirely collaborative tone.2:14–4:51 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sarah Tavel's Journey into Venture Capital Harry introduces Sarah and asks standard background questions regarding her transition into venture capital at Bessemer. Sarah shares her personal career story without any friction, and Harry adds lighthearted banter about his podcast.4:52–8:23 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sourcing Pinterest at Bessemer Venture Partners Harry asks how Sarah identified Pinterest's early potential and whether design or metrics drove her thesis. Sarah explains the visual nature of the product and how tracking Alexa traffic confirmed user growth.8:25–14:21 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Transitioning to Operating and Joining Greylock Harry inquires about Sarah's transition back to VC and why she picked Greylock over other top-tier firms. Sarah details the distinction between active execution in product roles versus continuous active learning and apprenticeship in venture.14:21–19:43 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Founder Partnerships and VC Personal Branding as a Freemium Model When Harry brings up the concept of being founder friendly, Sarah directly pushes back on the term, reframing a VC's duty as being a truth seeker who asks tough questions. She also articulates her view of VC personal branding as a freemium model.19:48–22:43 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Investment Focus: 10X Better and Cheaper Products Harry challenges Sarah's investment thesis that products must be both 10x better and cheaper, asking if financial savings are truly necessary if speed or external features are vastly superior. Sarah defends her thesis by explaining the difference between niche premium products and multi-billion dollar mass market companies.22:44–26:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Quick Fire Round Harry leads a rapid-fire question round covering books, operating experience, and hiring assistance. Sarah provides quick, structured responses in an entirely collaborative tone.2:14–4:51 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Sarah Tavel's Journey into Venture Capital Harry introduces Sarah and asks standard background questions regarding her transition into venture capital at Bessemer. Sarah shares her personal career story without any friction, and Harry adds lighthearted banter about his podcast.4:52–8:23 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Sourcing Pinterest at Bessemer Venture Partners Harry asks how Sarah identified Pinterest's early potential and whether design or metrics drove her thesis. Sarah explains the visual nature of the product and how tracking Alexa traffic confirmed user growth.8:25–14:21 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Transitioning to Operating and Joining Greylock Harry inquires about Sarah's transition back to VC and why she picked Greylock over other top-tier firms. Sarah details the distinction between active execution in product roles versus continuous active learning and apprenticeship in venture.14:21–19:43 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Founder Partnerships and VC Personal Branding as a Freemium Model When Harry brings up the concept of being founder friendly, Sarah directly pushes back on the term, reframing a VC's duty as being a truth seeker who asks tough questions. She also articulates her view of VC personal branding as a freemium model.19:48–22:43 · Harry pushing back 5/10 Investment Focus: 10X Better and Cheaper Products Harry challenges Sarah's investment thesis that products must be both 10x better and cheaper, asking if financial savings are truly necessary if speed or external features are vastly superior. Sarah defends her thesis by explaining the difference between niche premium products and multi-billion dollar mass market companies.22:44–26:09 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Quick Fire Round Harry leads a rapid-fire question round covering books, operating experience, and hiring assistance. Sarah provides quick, structured responses in an entirely collaborative tone.

speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Harry 81.3% · guest 18.7%0:00 · Harry 81.3% · guest 18.7%3:00 · Harry 16.5% · guest 83.5%3:00 · Harry 16.5% · guest 83.5%6:00 · Harry 14% · guest 86%6:00 · Harry 14% · guest 86%9:00 · Harry 10.6% · guest 89.4%9:00 · Harry 10.6% · guest 89.4%12:00 · Harry 10.4% · guest 89.6%12:00 · Harry 10.4% · guest 89.6%15:00 · Harry 25.9% · guest 74.1%15:00 · Harry 25.9% · guest 74.1%18:00 · Harry 20.3% · guest 79.7%18:00 · Harry 20.3% · guest 79.7%21:00 · Harry 20.2% · guest 79.8%21:00 · Harry 20.2% · guest 79.8%24:00 · Harry 40.9% · guest 59.1%24:00 · Harry 40.9% · guest 59.1%27:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%27:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:39 Rejecting the 'founder friendly' label

Sarah directly rejects Harry's buzzword framing of VCs being founder friendly, arguing that true value comes from being a truth seeker who pushes founders rather than just agreeing with them.

 Hardest push from Harry ▶ 21:14 Challenging the necessity of lower prices

Harry refuses to take Sarah's investment framework at face value, explicitly challenging whether a 10x product really needs to save money if speed or convenience are radically improved.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 21:28 Educating on mass-market scale vs premium products

Sarah explains the underlying economics of venture scale, educating Harry that non-cheaper 10x products only serve wealthy niches, whereas multi-billion dollar companies require lower costs or free models.

 Harry holds his own ▶ 21:14 Probing VC investment criteria

Harry demonstrates his own understanding of venture value propositions by testing Sarah's thesis with counter-examples regarding faster delivery and product positioning.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicHarry as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementHarry pushing backWhy
Sarah Tavel's Journey into Venture Capital 1100 Harry introduces Sarah and asks standard background questions regarding her transition into venture capital at Bessemer. Sarah shares her personal career story without any friction, and Harry adds lighthearted banter about his podcast.
Sourcing Pinterest at Bessemer Venture Partners 2200 Harry asks how Sarah identified Pinterest's early potential and whether design or metrics drove her thesis. Sarah explains the visual nature of the product and how tracking Alexa traffic confirmed user growth.
Transitioning to Operating and Joining Greylock 2300 Harry inquires about Sarah's transition back to VC and why she picked Greylock over other top-tier firms. Sarah details the distinction between active execution in product roles versus continuous active learning and apprenticeship in venture.
Founder Partnerships and VC Personal Branding as a Freemium Model 3531 When Harry brings up the concept of being founder friendly, Sarah directly pushes back on the term, reframing a VC's duty as being a truth seeker who asks tough questions. She also articulates her view of VC personal branding as a freemium model.
Investment Focus: 10X Better and Cheaper Products 5425 Harry challenges Sarah's investment thesis that products must be both 10x better and cheaper, asking if financial savings are truly necessary if speed or external features are vastly superior. Sarah defends her thesis by explaining the difference between niche premium products and multi-billion dollar mass market companies.
Quick Fire Round 1200 Harry leads a rapid-fire question round covering books, operating experience, and hiring assistance. Sarah provides quick, structured responses in an entirely collaborative tone.

Statements from this episode (5)

Assertion Supported
Bessemer Invested in Pinterest When It Had Five Employees
“When we invested, it was a five-person company with tens of thousands of users”
Sarah Tavel Apr 6, 2016 ▶ 8:12
Insight
Founders Need VCs to Be Truth-Seekers, Not Just Founder Friendly
“Oftime, what a founder really needs, I believe is for someone else to be a truth seeker and ask the hard questions or show a blind spot that they might have or push them in some way. And, Sometimes when I hear founder friendly, I hear, I think of like, oh, jus…”
Sarah Tavel Apr 6, 2016 ▶ 14:46
Insight
VC Blogging Acts as a Freemium Model for Founders
“I think of blogging and doing all these types of things as essentially the equivalent of the VC freemium model. You know, we're trying, like, as much as we can, like, we're getting ourselves out there because otherwise, you know, founders should be making a de…”
Sarah Tavel Apr 6, 2016 ▶ 18:14
Insight
Multi-Billion Dollar Consumer Businesses Must Be Free or Better and Cheaper
“If you want to build a truly mid-market, kind of, you know, I'm focused on businesses that will become large, enduring, multi-billion dollar businesses, and I think in order to build one of those, You either have to figure out how to give something away for fr…”
Sarah Tavel Apr 6, 2016 ▶ 21:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Operating Experience Is Not Required to Be a Great VC
“I think to be a great investor, you don't need operating experience. I think if you look at many of the best investors, they actually don't have operating experience.”
Sarah Tavel Apr 6, 2016 ▶ 23:20
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