Feb 18, 2023 · 1h 1m · news
Aloe Blacc: The Secret to Songwriting & Storytelling; Working w/ Avicii on “Wake Me Up” | 20VC #979 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter Aloe Blacc joins Harry Stebbings to discuss his journey from corporate life to global music icon, sharing insights on the creative mechanics of songwriting, navigating fame, and his unexpected pivot into founding a biotech startup.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 25.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Harry as informed peer 2.5 Guest teaching 4.1 Guest disagreement 1.3 Harry pushing back 0.7
speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 47:02 Direct rejection of host's dating advice
Aloe explicitly shuts down Harry's suggestion to use calendar invites to romance partners, stating firmly that he will not be taking that advice.
Hardest push from Harry ▶ 54:12 Correcting pitch deck terminologyHarry firmly interrupts Aloe's narrative to deliver a hard rule of venture capital, telling him to never say philanthropy to an investor in a pitch deck.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 25:35 Exposing the commercial trick of music albumsAloe educates Harry on music industry history, demonstrating that the standard 12-song album was not an artistic invention but an exploitative margin trick invented by vinyl manufacturers.
Harry holds his own ▶ 53:33 Explaining venture milestone psychologyHarry showcases deep VC expertise by outlining how investors think in 18-month de-risking tranches and Series A milestones rather than just distant visionary goals.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Harry as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Harry pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Discovering a Love for Music | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Harry asks basic conversational questions about Aloe's upbringing and early music interest. Aloe explains his career turning point when he was laid off from Ernst & Young. | |
| The Impact of Parents on Parenting | 2 | 3 | 2 | 1 | Harry offers personal reflections on motivation and feeling unworthy. Aloe gently reframes Harry's assumption about contrarian rule-breaking by emphasizing his own focus on efficiency. | |
| Running towards Longevity and Defining Success | 2 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Harry admits feeling insecure on the media treadmill. Aloe educates him on defining success through family, contentment, and human impact rather than purely financial benchmarks. | |
| The Songwriting and Creative Process | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Aloe breaks down the mechanics of professional songwriting sessions and narrative storytelling. Harry acts as an appreciative listener facilitating the explanation. | |
| Collaboration and Writing with Professionals | 2 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Aloe details literary devices like extended metaphors and double entendres used by elite songwriters. Harry asks probing follow-ups about recognizing artistic magic. | |
| Editing, Incubating, and Developing a Song | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | Aloe outlines his process of incubating songs and testing drafts with his children in the car. Harry pitches a flower title idea which Aloe playfully accepts. | |
| Writer's Block and Song Inventory | 3 | 6 | 2 | 1 | Harry brings up streaming algorithms affecting song structure. Aloe schools Harry on music history, explaining that the 12-song album was an exploitative business invention of vinyl manufacturing rather than pure art. | |
| Handling Fame and Reclaiming Anonymity | 1 | 4 | 1 | 0 | Aloe discusses losing anonymity and recount a story about being interrupted while eating in Paris, which led him to prioritize making his voice more famous than his face. | |
| Creating Timeless Music with 'AIM' | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | Aloe introduces his AIM framework for songwriting—Affirmation, Inspiration, Motivation. Harry asks about the emotional intent behind his music. | |
| The Creation of 'Wake Me Up' with Avicii | 2 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Aloe shares the creation story of Wake Me Up with Avicii and Mike Einziger. He details the risk of performing live instruments at Ultra Music Festival despite initial boos. | |
| Dealing with Online Criticism and Self-Doubt | 2 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Harry opens up about feeling self-doubt from online trolls. Aloe rejects the premise of experiencing self-doubt and offers advice on focusing on future choice over past judgment. | |
| Maintaining a Marriage and Finding Love Languages | 3 | 4 | 3 | 2 | Harry offers advice on maintaining romance via playful calendar invites. Aloe directly rejects the tip, stating firmly he will not take that advice. | |
| Aloe's Pivot to Biotech and Company Creation | 2 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Aloe explains getting COVID-19, researching ACE-2 receptor science, and licensing university IP to build a coronavirus prophylactic biotech business. | |
| Biotech Fundraising and VC Lessons | 7 | 3 | 1 | 3 | Harry demonstrates strong VC expertise, instructing Aloe on how venture capitalists evaluate incremental milestone tranches and de-risking stages. Harry explicitly warns Aloe never to use the word philanthropy in an investor pitch deck. | |
| Quick-Fire Questions: Life, Music, and Role Models | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | In a quick-fire round, Aloe reflects on favorite tour spots, role models like Mandela and King, and wanting the word Complete on his tombstone. | |
| Technology Concerns, AI, and Future Vision | 5 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Harry contrasts current rapid AI adoption with historical 20 to 30 year technology cycles. Aloe lightly teases Harry about claims of VC market liquidity. |
Statements from this episode (27)
Aloe Blacc: Effective storytelling induces a flow state in listeners
“That's what a story will do. It draws you in, and it keeps you there, and it's almost like the artist was probably in flow state when they wrote it. If they can get you into flow state where you forget about everything else. Dude, that's magic.”
Aloe Blacc: I would not have pursued music without EY layoff
“Nah, no way. If I was still at Ernst & Young, if I was still business consulting, I'd continue through that pathway. I'd probably have left Ernst & Young to go to work for one of the companies that maybe we were consulting for probably would have made my way u…”
Aloe Blacc carved out a music niche to limit constant touring
“Rather than having to tour all the time, I have carved a niche out of the industry so I can stay home more often than not.”
Aloe Blacc brought music management in-house and ended lawyer retainers
“I shed myself of all of, as much of the infrastructure as possible, like, you know, brought management in-house rather than having a manager, so I can, so I'm in charge, I get to control the time. You know, shed myself of retainers for, you know, lawyers and o…”
Aloe Blacc has accumulated enough wealth for his grandchildren
“Once I figured out, I had enough money for my grandkids. I'm not racing against other people at this point.”
Aloe Blacc: Mastering song structure enables focus on poetry
“When you get it down and you understand the format, you can spend so much more time on the beauty of the poetry.”
Aloe Blacc: Songwriting with professionals takes four hours maximum
“And you, when you're working with a professional, it happens in four hours. When you're not, you've got to come back the second day or the third day to finish things up.”
Aloe Blacc brought phone lyrics to the Wake Me Up writing session
“Like, when I wrote Wake Me Up, I brought my best to the room, right? I brought the best lyrics I had in my phone at the time to the session.”
Aloe Blacc: Creators cannot predict which songs will become hits
“You can't determine what's going to be a hit”
Aloe Blacc: Incubating songs over time allows them to rewrite themselves
“You spent, you let the song incubate for a day, two, maybe a week, maybe a month, could be a year, And by the time you come back to it almost rewrites itself.”
Aloe Blacc: Kids requesting song replays validates its quality
“And then I'll play it in the car when I drop my kids off at school, and if they love it, they'll ask for it the next day, or they'll ask for it when I pick them up. They'll say, can you play the new song again? And then I'll know I have something really specia…”
Aloe Blacc: Regular release schedules are required to win streaming algorithms
“You need to be putting music out regularly so that the algorithm is, is favoring you, so that new audiences can see, find your old music and learn about your new music.”
Aloe Blacc: The music album was invented to boost label profit margins
“When enterprising business empresarios and the music industry recognized that you could fit 12 songs on the same piece of vinyl and the manufacturing costs are the same, they thought, well, we can sell it for 12 times more because the buyer is getting 12 times…”
Aloe Blacc: Commercial incentives will continue shaping how artists compose music
“I think what will happen is we will continue to make music based on how it can be sold, because there are Dominating factors coming from the industry.”
Aloe Blacc lets label executives remix songs if his original stays public
“When the song is finished, however, that's when I detach myself from it, and I tell the business people, okay, what do you need to do to make this work? You're like, well, we need to Frankenstein it. Like, go ahead, just make sure that I have my original versi…”
Aloe Blacc intentionally ensures audiences recognize his voice over his face
“I need to figure out how to make my songs perceive me. I need to figure out how to make sure that people know my voice, not my face. And that's what I've been kind of doing.”
Aloe Blacc: Sia figured out the ideal solution for personal anonymity
“When Sia came out, I was like, dang, she really figured it out.”
Aloe Blacc shares AIM framework for high-impact songwriting
“What I've found that I do mostly is what I call aim. It stands for affirmation, inspiration, and motivation. These are songs that will hopefully be the soundtrack to you living your best life or motivating you to achieve the impossible goal.”
Aloe Blacc: Avicii pioneered live instrumental sets at EDM festivals
“Tim made a huge decision in his career to not do what everyone else did with lasers and cannon you know, confetti cannons and smoke and half-naked girls dancing on the stage. He brought real musicians and real vocalists on stage with him, which was, nobody els…”
Aloe Blacc: Wake Me Up became Spotify's most streamed track
“And it ended up becoming the most streamed song in Spotify history for that time, right?”
Aloe Blacc: People use the internet to win arguments, not change minds
“And the internet is a place where people don't go to lose. People go to the internet to win. They go to win their argument. You're not going to change people's minds, right?”
Aloe Blacc: Music industry favors youth over mature songwriting themes
“So the music industry is, for all intents and purposes, a young, young person's sport and arena. We don't get a plethora of songs that are about maturation, right? We don't get songs from our best songwriters as they're growing older into the years talking abo…”
Aloe Blacc is building a biotech startup and pursuing FDA approval
“So I'm in the business. I'm in the middle of like developing a company, hiring on executives from pharma or biotech and finding advisors and developing a FDA pathway. All of this is brand new to me, but I think it's a worthy endeavor.”
Aloe Blacc: Biotech VCs prioritize execution teams over great ideas
“They're not really worried about your idea. You could have the greatest idea in the world. Who's your team, right? Who's going to take this from a dream to an actual product on the shelf and who's going to return my money.”
Harry Stebbings: VCs focus on incremental milestone de-risking between funding rounds
“I think the other thing that people forget with VCs is we think in increments, people often think they want to see like the twenty billion dollar outcome. And yes, we absolutely do, but we also want to see where the next round comes from.”