May 31, 2023 · 54m · news
David Allemann: How I founded On Running; Working with Roger Federer; Brand Marketing Tips | E1021 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
David Allemann, co-founder of On Running, details the brand's journey from a crude garden-hose prototype in Switzerland to a global sportswear powerhouse. He shares key insights on innovative minimalist design, scaling internationally, and building an unconventional co-entrepreneurial partnership with tennis legend Roger Federer.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 18.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Harry as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 3.1 Guest disagreement 0.5 Harry pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 49:15 Rejecting 80/20 for 120% Perfection
David explicitly rejects the standard productivity framework that 80/20 optimization works best, arguing that 120% perfectionism beats efficiency in product development.
Hardest push from Harry ▶ 15:52 Challenging US Expansion TimingHarry directly challenges the logic of entering the US market in year two, pointing out that On had not yet established dominance in Europe.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 24:27 Retail Merchandising DifferencesDavid explains the fundamental difference between shoe and apparel retailing, educating Harry on visual volume versus curated styling.
Harry holds his own ▶ 44:37 Demonstrating VC Playbook KnowledgeHarry draws on his venture capital experience to question whether withholding large venture raises delayed On's broad cultural reach.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Harry as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Harry pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Roger Federer Preview | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Harry opens with warm enthusiasm and basic origin-story questions. David explains the technical mechanics of cutting garden hoses to create hollow elements that compress on impact and provide explosive push-off. | |
| Prototypes & Learning to Make Shoes in Asia | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Harry asks straightforward operational questions about building the initial prototypes. David educates Harry on the tooling complexities of creating holes in shoe soles during early factory visits in Asia. | |
| Award Recognition & Committing Full-Time | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Harry asks about committing full-time and early funding. David shares the story of hiking in the Swiss mountains to discuss leaving safe corporate careers to take entrepreneurial risk. | |
| Grassroots Sales & Unconventional Design | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Harry explores design challenges and naivety in product development. David lightly corrects a premise about product design by explaining how On deliberately stripped away 'running shoe bling' in favor of minimalist Swiss design. | |
| Going Global: The US Launch | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Harry presses on why On expanded into the competitive US market in year two despite not dominating Europe yet. David explains that global sports brands must root themselves in the US early and details their D2C and grassroots rollout. | |
| Expanding into Apparel | 2 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Harry asks why selling apparel is so different from selling footwear. David schools Harry on merchandising geometry, noting footwear has inherent visual volume on walls whereas apparel requires curated outfits and full scene design. | |
| Reinventing the Physical Retail Experience | 2 | 3 | 0 | 1 | Harry asks about retail strategy and lessons learned from physical stores. David details how On redesigned retail interaction by introducing the 'archive drawer' to eliminate waiting for stockroom pulls. | |
| Near-Death Experiences & Collaborative Leadership | 2 | 3 | 0 | 1 | Harry prompts for startup near-death experiences and when to recruit executive leadership. David shares a story of factory bankruptcy and explains why transitioning to co-CEOs enabled global scaling. | |
| Financing On Running | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Harry inquires about early financing structure and the Roger Federer deal. David reframes the typical star endorsement paradigm by explaining how On asked Federer to become an equity investor instead of paying him an endorsement fee. | |
| Brand Philosophy, Apple's Influence & Simplicity | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Harry questions whether On should have raised tens of millions in VC earlier to fuel faster broad-brand marketing. David defends On's balance of growth and profitability while detailing how Apple inspires their design-tech fusion. | |
| Quick Fire Round & Future Outlook | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | During the quick fire round, David offers contrarian perspectives, rejecting the popular 80/20 rule in favor of 120% perfectionism when building consumer products. |
Statements from this episode (17)
Allemann: Roger Federer invested in On Running instead of taking cash endorsement
“But how about not us giving you money, but you giving us money and becoming a co-investor and a co-entrepreneur together with us and To our surprise, Roger said, yes, that's what I'm gonna do.”
Allemann: Living in safe, wealthy countries can inhibit entrepreneurial risk-taking
“If you're coming out of Switzerland, you're coming out of one of the richest, safest places on the planet. And that sometimes can be an inhibitor because then you're in such a safe place that you probably don't take risks anymore.”
Allemann: Hiring non-footwear designers enabled On to break shoe industry conventions
“We had asked Thilo because he's a product designer and Not a shoe designer. He had never designed a shoe. And so we felt that's a good fit with us because we also never were in the shoe business. So let's completely break conventions.”
Allemann: Minimalist Swiss design ultimately drove On's brand differentiation
“At the beginning people told us, don't do that, that you need the running shoe bling because that's gonna put you at a disadvantage and we did it anyhow. And so at first it probably was almost a little bit an inhibitor but it made it to a very distinctive desi…”
Allemann: Global sports brands must be firmly rooted in the US
“If you want to be a sports brand, you have to be in the U S and you have to be firmly rooted in the U S as you have to be in many other countries like Japan, UK.”
Allemann: Sportswear startups need retail partners because consumers distrust direct claims
“We feel it's much more effective if they talk about the shoe. If we talk about, there's been so much said about running shoes by so many different brands. If we go out there and say, hey, now we did the most amazing running shoe on the planet. Nobody will beli…”
Allemann: On Running sold 50 pairs in its first D2C month in 2012
“In the first month, I think we sold 50 pairs of shoes back in 2000 and 12, I believe. And so we launched this D to C presence as well.”
Allemann: Frederik Van Lierde won 2013 Ironman World Championship in On prototype
“Fredrik von Lirde one of the top talents and contenders For the Ironman triathlon on Kona for the world championships he wore our shoe and it was a prototype. So Olivier was always cycling behind him on the running route because Olivier was afraid that the sho…”
David Allemann: Apparel will not sell if merely hung on hangers
“If you just hang apparel on a hanger, it's not gonna sell.”
Allemann: Successful retail maximizes customer interaction time over transaction time
“So people love it because it's maximizing the interaction time and not the transaction time.”
Allemann: On Running nearly died in 2013 following supplier bankruptcy
“In 2013 our production partners called me and said, Hey, David, we have a little problem. Just our factory went broke. So they're shut down and all the materials for Next season's production are already in there, but they haven't been assembled. And so that wa…”
Allemann: Half of On's leadership and all DTC regional leads are female
“If you look at our senior leadership team now today, these are roughly 10 people. Half of them are female. So actually all the regions D to C is all in female hands at On”
Roger Federer spends 30 to 40 days a year at Onlabs
“It has turned into a fantastic partnership and friendship where he now probably spends 30 days, 30 to 40 days per year with us here in Onlabs, working on products and our we're completely aligned.”
Allemann: On Running waited too long to invest in broad brand awareness
“Probably back then it probably waited a little bit long until we started to invest into on being bigger out there and being also having this cultural relevance. And so the moment where we see you switch from building a grassroot level brand, To then also build…”
Allemann: On Running founders spend 40 to 50 days yearly in lab
“We as founders probably spend 40, 50 days per year in the lab and together with an amazing team, we're trying to always shave off again as well.”
Allemann: Perfection beats efficiency in product development over 80/20 optimization
“I feel doing something to perfection in many cases beats kind of optimizing for efficiency, especially when it comes to product. Not always true, but as somebody who's very much focused on product, I'm more 120%.”
Allemann: On Running will expand into full-body apparel and tennis by 2028
“On in five years will be a global sports brand that still very much resonates with our core community, with runners, but also has built a second sport called tennis, and is happening for you on the full body. So not only shoes, but very much also apparel, beca…”