Apr 26, 2025 · 24m · tbpn
How Robots Are Quietly Rebuilding U.S. Manufacturing | Saman Farid on TBPN
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Formic CEO Saman Farid discusses how zero-CapEx automation and standardized deployment software are revitalizing American manufacturing, contrasting practical industrial robotics against humanoid hype while addressing the widening industrial gap between the US and China.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 3.8 Guest teaching 5.7 Guest disagreement 1.8 The hosts pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:40 Calling the robotics programming focus delusional
Saman forcefully dismisses standard industry priorities, arguing it is completely delusional that 90% of roboticists spend time easing programming when that represents under 5% of actual deployment cost.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 2:36 Challenging the business model as pure financial engineeringHost explicitly raises the critique that Formic may just be a financial innovation swapping CapEx to OpEx acting like a Palantir-style consulting shop.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:18 Factory utilization realities between US and ChinaSaman contextualizes re-industrialization by pointing out that US factories operate under 2,000 hours annually compared to 7,500 hours in China due to chronic labor shortages.
The host holds their own ▶ 19:23 Historical analysis of American vertical integrationHost demonstrates deep industrial knowledge by linking current supply chain fragmentation back to Ford's historical vertical integration and its subsequent decomposition by management consulting.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| The Challenges of US Re-Industrialization | 4 | 6 | 4 | 3 | Host plays devil's advocate by challenging whether Formic is merely financial innovation swapping CapEx for OpEx. Saman pushes back strongly, citing US factory utilization data and criticizing mainstream roboticists as delusional for focusing on robot programming instead of deployment infrastructure. | |
| Focusing Robotic Automation on CPG and Food Manufacturing | 3 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Host and Jordy ask why Formic targeted CPG and food manufacturing and request a taxonomy of robotics form factors. Saman details the operational realities of 24-hour factory shifts and explains why six-axis articulated arms dominate the market. | |
| Eliminating Custom Engineering Costs for Small Manufacturers | 3 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Jordy raises historical examples like Nike's failed automation attempts. Saman breaks down the cost anatomy of a work cell, explaining that 70% of deployment expense is custom engineering that Formic's platform eliminates for small tier-suppliers. | |
| The Global Robotics Ecosystem and Work Cell Components | 4 | 6 | 2 | 1 | Host identifies safety light curtains from observing Hadrian's factory. Saman breaks down the global component ecosystem (PLCs, sensors, end-effectors) and explains why humanoids face physical tipping and load limits in logistics. | |
| Economic and Maintenance Realities of Humanoid Robots | 5 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Host brings up Boston Dynamics moving to electric motors and contextualizes American industrial history with Ford's vertical integration. Saman explains maintenance realities of humanoids having 30 to 50 motors versus 6 in industrial arms. | |
| Vision Language Action Models and the US-China Robotics Gap | 4 | 6 | 2 | 0 | Host prompts Saman on Physical Intelligence and Vision Language Action models. Saman explains why VLA models remain too slow for commercial line rates and highlights the massive annual deployment gap between China (400k) and the US (30k). |
Statements from this episode (21)
Farid: Formic has deployed hundreds of robots across over 100 US factories
“We have hundreds of them across more than a hundred factories now in the U S that are using our robots to produce all kinds of products.”
Farid: Formic's robots produce all the nachos for Chipotle
“We make all the nachos for Chipotle and dog food and cat food and laundry detergent.”
Farid: There are 250,000 factories in the United States
“We do have 250,000 factories in America that are making all kinds of products, so they exist.”
Farid: US factories run under 2,000 hours annually versus 7,500 in China
“The typical utilization rate of a factory in America is less than 2000 hours a year. This, the comparable number in China is 7500 hours a year, right? Like there's 8700 possible production hours in a given year. The vast majority of American factories are sitt…”
Farid: Getting a robot to work is only 10% of robotics deployment
“Getting a robot to do a job is 10% of the work. 90% of the work is like, how do you do error handling and how do you solve all of the shit that happens after you deploy that robot?”
Farid: Programming accounts for under 5% of Formic's robot deployment costs
“From the hundreds of robots that we've deployed today, less than five percent of my deployment cost is programming the robot to do the thing.”
Farid: CPG factories operate 20-24 hours daily versus six for metal fabrication
“The typical CPG factory actually runs 20 to 24 hours a day in Things like metal fabrication, like parts of factories that make metal parts for aerospace and automotive, they typically run, you know, eight hours a day of production, but actually only like six h…”
Farid: CPG manufacturing stays domestic because low margins make ocean shipping unprofitable
“Because CPG products are generally low value and low margin, it's not worth it to ship them across the ocean. So a lot of that is actually happening domestically.”
Farid: Six-Axis Robot Arms Represent Vast Majority of Factory Automation Use Cases
“Articulated six axis robot arms are still the vast majority of use cases, right?”
Farid: Robot Form Factor Is Irrelevant if Software Properly Abstracts Motion Control
“To be honest, like the form factor is kind of irrelevant because in all of these types of robots that you're talking about, you have a couple of motors and some motion control, right? Like it's actually if you can abstract away the software enough, like all of…”
Farid: Custom engineering represents 70% of industrial robotics costs
“The interesting thing though, is if you break down that cost about s, 30% of that cost is the hardware itself, right? Like the robot arm and the conveyors and that kind of stuff. 70% of the cost is all the custom engineering that you typically have to pay for.…”
Farid: The world's largest industrial robot makers are not American
“The biggest robot companies in the world are all not American, right? So FANUC is Japanese. They're one of the biggest ones. KUKA used to be a German company. It got acquired by a Chinese company ABB Yaskawa you know, Mitsubishi, you know, there's a bunch of t…”
Farid: Moving heavy loads at speed is physically impractical for humanoid robots
“If you're picking up a 50 pound box with one of those robots, like it's very likely to tip over pretty easily. Like you need, and if you want to move at any kind of speed, right? Because if you take a 50 pound box and you move it at, you know, five miles an ho…”
Farid: Manufacturing automation has lower technical complexity than logistics
“If you move to manufacturing, like you have a lot more consistency because every production line is kind of making the same part or the same product at relatively higher rate. And so the technical complexity is lower, but the operational complexity is higher.”
Farid: Humanoids Face Severe Maintenance Hurdles Due to Having 30 to 50 Motors
“Like a six axis robot has six motors a humanoid, most of these humans that we've seen have something like 30 to 50 motors, right? And so just, you're just talking about like the wear on the motor, we have to go out and lubricate these joints and replace motors…”
Farid: China has a huge advantage over US startups in vertical robotics integration
“Like the Chinese, like, I think this is a place where China has a huge advantage compared to like a lot of the American startups like Unitree, for example, which I'm sure you guys have seen those videos, like they have built an entire team to build actuators a…”
Farid: VLA models are too slow for commercial robotics but will improve
“The problem today is that they're just generally too slow for us to be able to use them in a kind of commercial setting, but I think that'll get better in the next few years.”
China deployed 400,000 robots last year versus 30,000 in the US
“Like in China right now last year, there were about 400,000 robots deployed in the entire U S we had about 30,000 robots deployed. So less than a 10th.”
Farid: Cultural risk aversion is biggest barrier to US robotics adoption
“To be honest, like the biggest barrier to adoption of robotics in America is like, it's a cultural change, right? Like these factory owners, a lot of these are third generation businesses, right? They've been passed down Or they're kind of private equity owned…”
Farid: US has offered automation subsidies and 50% matching grants for a decade
“Like similar to what China does actually in the U S we've had subsidies for small, medium sized factories for the last 10 years to buy automation equipment. Right. There, there's accelerated depreciation. A lot of states have matching grants, where if you buy …”
State automation grants sit undeployed because factories lack expertise, Farid says
“Like, when we talk to the states, most of them say, like, we can't give out these grants. Like, nobody's using it because people don't know what to buy. They don't know how to buy it. And once they buy it, they're like, they can't handle the responsibility of …”