Nov 17, 2022 · 52m · startup-ideas
Writing, Religion, and Walt Disney with David Perell
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Entrepreneur and educator David Perell joins Greg Isenberg to discuss the creation and business model of Write of Passage, the mechanics of cohort-based learning, and how philosophical principles like mimetic theory inform community design and visionary leadership.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Greg holds 36.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Greg as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 3.7 Guest disagreement 1.4 Greg pushing back 0.9
speaking balance: gold is Greg, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 26:27 David refutes linking community business to religious study
David explicitly refuses Greg's premise that Rite of Passage mirrors religious structure, insisting on keeping his study of faith completely separate from economic incentives.
Hardest push from Greg ▶ 29:33 Greg defends the parallel between religion and community designGreg reasserts his original thesis against David's separation, arguing that both religions and communities fundamentally rely on core texts, incentives, and small initial disciple groups.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 35:10 David teaches Girardian mimetic rivalry and Thiel's management rulesDavid breaks down the theological and philosophical roots of Rene Girard's mimetic theory and illustrates how Peter Thiel applied the Cain and Abel lesson to corporate structure.
Greg holds their own ▶ 12:02 Greg demonstrates expertise on algorithmic text distributionGreg corrects David's broad multi-decade timeline with specific platform analysis, demonstrating how recent algorithmic home feeds altered discovery economics compared to podcasting.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Greg as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Greg pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Founding Rite of Passage and the Future of Education | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Greg introduces David warmly and asks open-ended foundational questions about Rite of Passage. David shares his backstory of struggling in school, discovering Tiago Forte's course, and launching the company. | |
| Entrepreneurial Risk-Taking and Career Strategy for Twenties | 5 | 2 | 2 | 1 | Greg contributes the Summit Series case study and shares thoughts on making mistakes in one's twenties. David agrees and forcefully critiques soulless corporate jobs that drain youthful ambition. | |
| Ambition, Small Bets, and Fixing Broken Educational Models | 3 | 4 | 2 | 0 | David explains Nassim Taleb's barbell approach of small bets before committing fully, contrasting high ambition with low requisite knowledge. Greg prompts him on what drives his conviction to fix education. | |
| Leveraging Writing and Modern Algorithmic Platforms for Distribution | 7 | 2 | 1 | 3 | Greg pushes back on David's 15-20 year timeline, demonstrating his own expertise on how algorithmic feeds over the last five years reshaped text distribution compared to podcasting. David readily agrees and adds Substack. | |
| Sponsor Break: AG1 by Athletic Greens | 3 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Following an ad read, Greg asks about the economics of online education. David breaks down student economics, high margins, and leveraging software like Zoom and Circle as a free shadow workforce. | |
| Audience Signals, Emergent Community Culture, and Mimetic Behavior | 5 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Greg outlines the Boss Babe community funnel framework. David expands on sending unique signal frequencies, community rituals, and emergent mimetic culture rather than top-down rules. | |
| Studying the Bible and Western Moral Foundations | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | When Greg suggests Rite of Passage parallels religious community structure, David rejects the comparison to separate church and capitalism. Greg pushes back by defending specific parallels between religious texts and community rituals. | |
| Biblical Storytelling, Peter Thiel, and Mimetic Rivalry | 4 | 6 | 2 | 1 | David educates Greg on Rene Girard's mimetic theory and how biblical stories like Cain and Abel explain modern business practices, including Peter Thiel's one-task rule at PayPal. | |
| Sponsor Break: Retool Internal Tools Platform | 4 | 4 | 1 | 0 | After an ad read, Greg asks for tactical applications of Girardian theory. David illustrates how overlapping executive roles create destructive turf wars, and Greg connects this to the flaw of co-CEOs. | |
| Walt Disney's Creative Vision and Product Obsession | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | David delivers an extensive historical monologue on Walt Disney's product obsession, miniature trains, and his operational partnership with Roy Disney, while Greg listens intently. | |
| Balancing Visionary Leadership with Operations and Conclusion | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Greg and David bond over pairing visionaries with operational operators, with Greg referencing his own COO Theo and the Simpsons car episode before concluding the episode. |
Statements from this episode (14)
Perell: The internet fundamentally transforms education economics and class sizes
“And I saw how the internet was going to change the, had changed the economics of education forever. We were going to go from teachers teaching at minimum, at most, 40 students at a time to now teaching thousands, hundreds of thousands, and that the internet wa…”
Perell: Write of Passage launched with a $20,000 Emergent Ventures grant
“And right around then I got a 20,000 dollar grant from Tyler Cowen's Merchant Ventures program, took that 20,000 dollars, hired a Hollywood film crew, flew them down to Mexico City.”
Perell: Corporate jobs in your twenties drain ambition and agency
“One of the issues with people in their twenties is they end up doing these stupid jobs where they go work in the soulless corporate environments where they, you know, quotes get paid to learn. And sometimes that's true. Don't get me wrong. Sometimes that is ve…”
Perell: 20-somethings underestimate how willing people are to help the young
“The other thing that people in their young twenties don't know is that everyone is willing to help you when you're young.”
David Perell: Modern education ignores 70 to 80 years of learning science
“None of the learning science that has come out in the last 70 to 80 years has actually been implemented.”
Perell: Write of Passage cohort has 438 students across 41 countries
“So right now we have five week program, 438 students from 41 countries. I have 38 people who are helping me run this in some capacity.”
Perell: Write of Passage charges a minimum of $4,000
“You know, you can't get into the course for less than 4000 dollars though. We do offer scholarships because of that.”
Isenberg: Hiring a Write of Passage grad beats Google or Stanford alumni
“When I interview someone that's graduated rite of passage, like to me, that's better than working at Google or graduating Stanford.”
Isenberg: Natalie Ellis stated BossBabe makes roughly $6M in revenue
“And she told us she's making like six million dollars in revenue which is incredible.”
Perell: AI writing makes differentiation and unique voices more essential
“It's gonna become more important to be differentiated as artificial intelligence and GPT-III, GPT-IV, as they begin to do a lot of writing for people. You're gonna need to have a unique voice”
Perell: Culture is built by elevating exemplar members, not enforcing rules
“You don't do it through rules. You don't do it through laws. You don't do it through guidelines. You do it by taking people who represent that culture and sort of promoting them, showing them off through shout outs, showing them off through leadership position…”
Perell: Peter Thiel mandated PayPal employees focus on one single task
“At PayPal, he had this rule. Where every single person had to work on one thing and one thing only, and he would only talk to people about one thing.”
Perell: Similarity and role overlap trigger destructive rivalry in teams
“You want people to be differentiated, own their territory, not have other people stomping on those territories, because that creates this competition and envy, and this leads into the philosophy of Rene Girard, who basically says that violence happens not beca…”
Perell: Write of Passage aims to build physical hubs like Disneyland
“I basically want Rite of Passage to be like Disneyland for writing. I eventually want to have houses around the world where people can come in and have conversations that embody the Rite of Passage spirit, test them out to greatness.”