StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Nov 17, 2022 · 51m · mad

A Cloud SQL Database Built for Survival | Cockroach CEO & Co-Founder, Spencer Kimball

Spencer Kimball · 41m spoken Matt Turck · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview on The MAD Podcast, host Matt Turck speaks with Spencer Kimball, Co-Founder and CEO of Cockroach Labs, about the evolution of distributed SQL databases. Kimball discusses CockroachDB's architecture, serverless cloud models, open-source monetization shifts, and key go-to-market strategies for enterprise growth.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Matt holds 10.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Matt as informed peer 3.1 Guest teaching 4.1 Guest disagreement 0.6 Matt pushing back 1.1
05100:0015:0030:0045:000:09–3:20 · Matt as informed peer 2/10 History of CockroachDB and Data Driven NYC Matt opens with a warm intro acknowledging his investor status and banter about how Cockroach got started. Spencer gently corrects Matt on the founding date timeline before introducing database fundamentals.3:20–8:31 · Matt as informed peer 2/10 Evolution from Legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner Matt prompts Spencer on the historical shift from legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner. Spencer delivers a detailed monologue on database history at Google, leaving little room for host interaction.8:31–12:34 · Matt as informed peer 2/10 Why CockroachDB: Resilience, Scale, and Multi-Region Matt sets up a basic question on CockroachDB's value proposition. Spencer explains survivability, multi-region compliance, and scaling architecture in a structured monologue.12:34–20:31 · Matt as informed peer 3/10 The Evolution of Cloud Infrastructure and Cockroach Serverless Matt asks about industry trends like the Data Cloud and serverless. Spencer politely dismisses the 'Data Cloud' concept as overly broad while explaining serverless primitives.20:31–25:20 · Matt as informed peer 4/10 Enterprise Cloud Adoption and the Netflix Case Study Matt asks strong strategic questions about Netflix's usage and whether Spencer would go directly cloud-native today. Spencer outlines the practical deployment demands of Global 2000 enterprises.25:20–32:09 · Matt as informed peer 5/10 Re-evaluating Open Source Models in the Cloud Era Matt prompts on open source business model shifts and presses on whether open source is still recommended today. Spencer delivers a thorough analysis of open core vs AWS commoditization.32:09–42:42 · Matt as informed peer 6/10 Go-to-Market Lessons and Building Enterprise Trust Matt drills deep into early go-to-market hiring profiles and org structure. Spencer provides counterintuitive advice on early sales roles and how database outages build enterprise trust.42:42–51:02 · Matt as informed peer 1/10 Audience Q&A and Key Takeaways Audience members ask technical questions on Web3, cloud vendor lock-in, and MySQL scaling limits. Spencer educates the room with technical explanations while Matt manages time.0:09–3:20 · Guest teaching 2/10 History of CockroachDB and Data Driven NYC Matt opens with a warm intro acknowledging his investor status and banter about how Cockroach got started. Spencer gently corrects Matt on the founding date timeline before introducing database fundamentals.3:20–8:31 · Guest teaching 4/10 Evolution from Legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner Matt prompts Spencer on the historical shift from legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner. Spencer delivers a detailed monologue on database history at Google, leaving little room for host interaction.8:31–12:34 · Guest teaching 4/10 Why CockroachDB: Resilience, Scale, and Multi-Region Matt sets up a basic question on CockroachDB's value proposition. Spencer explains survivability, multi-region compliance, and scaling architecture in a structured monologue.12:34–20:31 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Evolution of Cloud Infrastructure and Cockroach Serverless Matt asks about industry trends like the Data Cloud and serverless. Spencer politely dismisses the 'Data Cloud' concept as overly broad while explaining serverless primitives.20:31–25:20 · Guest teaching 3/10 Enterprise Cloud Adoption and the Netflix Case Study Matt asks strong strategic questions about Netflix's usage and whether Spencer would go directly cloud-native today. Spencer outlines the practical deployment demands of Global 2000 enterprises.25:20–32:09 · Guest teaching 5/10 Re-evaluating Open Source Models in the Cloud Era Matt prompts on open source business model shifts and presses on whether open source is still recommended today. Spencer delivers a thorough analysis of open core vs AWS commoditization.32:09–42:42 · Guest teaching 6/10 Go-to-Market Lessons and Building Enterprise Trust Matt drills deep into early go-to-market hiring profiles and org structure. Spencer provides counterintuitive advice on early sales roles and how database outages build enterprise trust.42:42–51:02 · Guest teaching 5/10 Audience Q&A and Key Takeaways Audience members ask technical questions on Web3, cloud vendor lock-in, and MySQL scaling limits. Spencer educates the room with technical explanations while Matt manages time.0:09–3:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 History of CockroachDB and Data Driven NYC Matt opens with a warm intro acknowledging his investor status and banter about how Cockroach got started. Spencer gently corrects Matt on the founding date timeline before introducing database fundamentals.3:20–8:31 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Evolution from Legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner Matt prompts Spencer on the historical shift from legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner. Spencer delivers a detailed monologue on database history at Google, leaving little room for host interaction.8:31–12:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Why CockroachDB: Resilience, Scale, and Multi-Region Matt sets up a basic question on CockroachDB's value proposition. Spencer explains survivability, multi-region compliance, and scaling architecture in a structured monologue.12:34–20:31 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Evolution of Cloud Infrastructure and Cockroach Serverless Matt asks about industry trends like the Data Cloud and serverless. Spencer politely dismisses the 'Data Cloud' concept as overly broad while explaining serverless primitives.20:31–25:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Enterprise Cloud Adoption and the Netflix Case Study Matt asks strong strategic questions about Netflix's usage and whether Spencer would go directly cloud-native today. Spencer outlines the practical deployment demands of Global 2000 enterprises.25:20–32:09 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Re-evaluating Open Source Models in the Cloud Era Matt prompts on open source business model shifts and presses on whether open source is still recommended today. Spencer delivers a thorough analysis of open core vs AWS commoditization.32:09–42:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Go-to-Market Lessons and Building Enterprise Trust Matt drills deep into early go-to-market hiring profiles and org structure. Spencer provides counterintuitive advice on early sales roles and how database outages build enterprise trust.42:42–51:02 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Audience Q&A and Key Takeaways Audience members ask technical questions on Web3, cloud vendor lock-in, and MySQL scaling limits. Spencer educates the room with technical explanations while Matt manages time.0:09–3:20 · Matt pushing back 1/10 History of CockroachDB and Data Driven NYC Matt opens with a warm intro acknowledging his investor status and banter about how Cockroach got started. Spencer gently corrects Matt on the founding date timeline before introducing database fundamentals.3:20–8:31 · Matt pushing back 0/10 Evolution from Legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner Matt prompts Spencer on the historical shift from legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner. Spencer delivers a detailed monologue on database history at Google, leaving little room for host interaction.8:31–12:34 · Matt pushing back 0/10 Why CockroachDB: Resilience, Scale, and Multi-Region Matt sets up a basic question on CockroachDB's value proposition. Spencer explains survivability, multi-region compliance, and scaling architecture in a structured monologue.12:34–20:31 · Matt pushing back 1/10 The Evolution of Cloud Infrastructure and Cockroach Serverless Matt asks about industry trends like the Data Cloud and serverless. Spencer politely dismisses the 'Data Cloud' concept as overly broad while explaining serverless primitives.20:31–25:20 · Matt pushing back 1/10 Enterprise Cloud Adoption and the Netflix Case Study Matt asks strong strategic questions about Netflix's usage and whether Spencer would go directly cloud-native today. Spencer outlines the practical deployment demands of Global 2000 enterprises.25:20–32:09 · Matt pushing back 3/10 Re-evaluating Open Source Models in the Cloud Era Matt prompts on open source business model shifts and presses on whether open source is still recommended today. Spencer delivers a thorough analysis of open core vs AWS commoditization.32:09–42:42 · Matt pushing back 3/10 Go-to-Market Lessons and Building Enterprise Trust Matt drills deep into early go-to-market hiring profiles and org structure. Spencer provides counterintuitive advice on early sales roles and how database outages build enterprise trust.42:42–51:02 · Matt pushing back 0/10 Audience Q&A and Key Takeaways Audience members ask technical questions on Web3, cloud vendor lock-in, and MySQL scaling limits. Spencer educates the room with technical explanations while Matt manages time.

speaking balance: gold is Matt, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Matt 41.4% · guest 58.6%0:00 · Matt 41.4% · guest 58.6%3:00 · Matt 8% · guest 92%3:00 · Matt 8% · guest 92%6:00 · Matt 8.2% · guest 91.8%6:00 · Matt 8.2% · guest 91.8%9:00 · Matt 0% · guest 100%9:00 · Matt 0% · guest 100%12:00 · Matt 14.1% · guest 85.9%12:00 · Matt 14.1% · guest 85.9%15:00 · Matt 6.1% · guest 93.9%15:00 · Matt 6.1% · guest 93.9%18:00 · Matt 7.6% · guest 92.4%18:00 · Matt 7.6% · guest 92.4%21:00 · Matt 6.6% · guest 93.4%21:00 · Matt 6.6% · guest 93.4%24:00 · Matt 10.7% · guest 89.3%24:00 · Matt 10.7% · guest 89.3%27:00 · Matt 0% · guest 100%27:00 · Matt 0% · guest 100%30:00 · Matt 26.1% · guest 73.9%30:00 · Matt 26.1% · guest 73.9%33:00 · Matt 13.6% · guest 86.4%33:00 · Matt 13.6% · guest 86.4%36:00 · Matt 4.4% · guest 95.6%36:00 · Matt 4.4% · guest 95.6%39:00 · Matt 15.3% · guest 84.7%39:00 · Matt 15.3% · guest 84.7%42:00 · Matt 0.9% · guest 99.1%42:00 · Matt 0.9% · guest 99.1%45:00 · Matt 0.5% · guest 99.5%45:00 · Matt 0.5% · guest 99.5%48:00 · Matt 13.2% · guest 86.8%48:00 · Matt 13.2% · guest 86.8%51:00 · Matt 34.5% · guest 65.5%51:00 · Matt 34.5% · guest 65.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:58 Skepticism of 'Data Cloud' buzzword

Spencer directly challenges industry framing by noting he is not sure what Data Cloud even means and warns against becoming a jack of all trades.

 Hardest push from Matt ▶ 31:19 Host presses on open source necessity

Matt pushes back on Spencer's open source narrative by directly asking if he would still recommend open source as a strategy today.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 37:25 Outages build enterprise trust

Spencer reframes the assumption that customer downtime causes churn, explaining counterintuitively how surviving an outage together creates deep long-term account expansion.

 Matt holds his own ▶ 34:05 Host demands specific sales profile details

Matt interrupts Spencer's general GTM answer to force him to specify exact characteristics of a startup's first sales hire.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicMatt as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementMatt pushing backWhy
History of CockroachDB and Data Driven NYC 2211 Matt opens with a warm intro acknowledging his investor status and banter about how Cockroach got started. Spencer gently corrects Matt on the founding date timeline before introducing database fundamentals.
Evolution from Legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner 2400 Matt prompts Spencer on the historical shift from legacy SQL to NoSQL and Spanner. Spencer delivers a detailed monologue on database history at Google, leaving little room for host interaction.
Why CockroachDB: Resilience, Scale, and Multi-Region 2400 Matt sets up a basic question on CockroachDB's value proposition. Spencer explains survivability, multi-region compliance, and scaling architecture in a structured monologue.
The Evolution of Cloud Infrastructure and Cockroach Serverless 3421 Matt asks about industry trends like the Data Cloud and serverless. Spencer politely dismisses the 'Data Cloud' concept as overly broad while explaining serverless primitives.
Enterprise Cloud Adoption and the Netflix Case Study 4311 Matt asks strong strategic questions about Netflix's usage and whether Spencer would go directly cloud-native today. Spencer outlines the practical deployment demands of Global 2000 enterprises.
Re-evaluating Open Source Models in the Cloud Era 5513 Matt prompts on open source business model shifts and presses on whether open source is still recommended today. Spencer delivers a thorough analysis of open core vs AWS commoditization.
Go-to-Market Lessons and Building Enterprise Trust 6603 Matt drills deep into early go-to-market hiring profiles and org structure. Spencer provides counterintuitive advice on early sales roles and how database outages build enterprise trust.
Audience Q&A and Key Takeaways 1500 Audience members ask technical questions on Web3, cloud vendor lock-in, and MySQL scaling limits. Spencer educates the room with technical explanations while Matt manages time.

Statements from this episode (10)

What-if
Kimball: Most database problems at Square were solvable with Spanner
“If you looked at all the problems Square was having, and they had something like 70 externally facing use cases when we joined them, most of the problems that they were struggling with could have been solved with the use of something like Spanner.”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 7:38
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kimball: Data infrastructure leaders will keep a narrow product focus
“In general, the industry leaders in each product category will continue to have a more narrow focus.”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 13:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Spencer Kimball: Netflix operates hundreds of CockroachDB clusters
“They have hundreds of cockroach clusters already.”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 23:03
Insight
Kimball: Winning Global 2000 customers requires multiple software deployment configurations
“If you want to win, at least in 2022, the global 2000 as customers, you really do have to have a product that, that runs in a variety of different configurations.”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 24:01
Insight
Kimball: Cloud services are cannibalizing the open-source business model
“Open source ate the software world, and now I think cloud services are very much cannibalizing the open source business model.”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 31:05
Insight
Kimball: Mandate to open source is weaker than when Cockroach started
“The mandate to open source is not nearly as strong as it was when we started Cockroach.”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 31:50
Insight
Kimball: Early exploratory sales hires usually must be replaced to scale
“As soon as that person starts to figure out what that motion looks like, you're probably going to need to replace them, because the person that can figure that out is not usually the person that can Mentor other salespeople and start to scale an organization a…”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 35:21
Insight
Kimball: Customers with zero software issues are actually more likely to churn
“You're actually more likely to churn a customer if they never have a problem with your software. Because they look at it and like, why aren't we just using the open source version of this? There's nothing that's wrong with this. We don't need support. What are…”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 38:16
Insight
Kimball: Buyers fear cloud vendor lock-in more than database vendor lock-in
“What they're worried about is the vendor lock-in from the hyperscale cloud vendors. They're very worried about that. So the right way to assuage their concerns isn't so much to convince them that they're not going to be locked into your system. It's to convinc…”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 46:00
Assertion Partly supported
Kimball: Google ran over 1,000 MySQL shards for a decade before Spanner
“Google didn't replace that system with Spanner, I think for almost 10 years. So by that time it had gotten to a thousand plus shards of MySQL.”
Spencer Kimball Nov 17, 2022 ▶ 49:20
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 400 conversations transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more