Mar 22, 2022 · 17m · green-blueprint

Why ‘maladaptation’ is getting so much attention

Dr. Lisa Schipper · 5m spoken Alex Harris · 4m spoken Stephen Lacey · 4m spoken Lara Pierpoint · 3s spoken
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This episode explores the concept of climate maladaptation, analyzing how multi-billion-dollar adaptation projects in Miami and across the globe can inadvertently worsen flooding risks and socio-economic inequities. Through insights from climate journalist Alex Harris and IPCC author Dr. Lisa Schipper, the discussion emphasizes the need to balance rapid infrastructure investment with long-term community resilience.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 0.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The hosts as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 0.3 The hosts pushing back 0.2
05100:0010:000:02–2:56 · The hosts as informed peer 4/10 Experiencing Sunny Day Flooding in Miami Lacey provides narrative framing around the UN climate report and the concept of maladaptation, while Harris describes on-the-ground flooding realities in Miami. The dynamic is fully collaborative and explanatory.2:58–6:07 · The hosts as informed peer 4/10 The Carbon Copy Introduction and Defining Maladaptation Lacey introduces Dr. Schipper and contextualizes political reactions to king tides in Miami. Schipper defines maladaptation and Harris shares statistics on avoided tidal floods after road-raising.6:07–8:41 · The hosts as informed peer 4/10 Climate Gentrification and the Unintended Consequences of Adaptation Lacey cites specific city study data showing an 11% property value increase from road raising. Schipper explains how adaptation infrastructure can simply displace risk or trigger climate gentrification.8:44–12:25 · The hosts as informed peer 4/10 Global Perspectives on Maladaptation and Infrastructure Pitfalls Lacey grounds the discussion in the 1990s origins of the term maladaptation. Schipper educates listeners by breaking down three categories of maladaptation and detailing a Fiji seawall case study.12:26–15:29 · The hosts as informed peer 5/10 Navigating Urgent Infrastructure Spending and Climate Resilience Lacey presses on whether urgent federal infrastructure spending could inadvertently drive maladaptation. Schipper candidly acknowledges the tension between the ticking clock to act and the risk of poorly designed projects.15:36–16:37 · The hosts as informed peer 3/10 Human Impacts and Key Takeaways for Urban Adaptation Lacey summarizes key takeaways from the IPCC findings. Harris emphasizes the social dimension of adaptation, noting that policy leaders must prioritize vulnerable residents alongside physical infrastructure.0:02–2:56 · Guest teaching 2/10 Experiencing Sunny Day Flooding in Miami Lacey provides narrative framing around the UN climate report and the concept of maladaptation, while Harris describes on-the-ground flooding realities in Miami. The dynamic is fully collaborative and explanatory.2:58–6:07 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Carbon Copy Introduction and Defining Maladaptation Lacey introduces Dr. Schipper and contextualizes political reactions to king tides in Miami. Schipper defines maladaptation and Harris shares statistics on avoided tidal floods after road-raising.6:07–8:41 · Guest teaching 3/10 Climate Gentrification and the Unintended Consequences of Adaptation Lacey cites specific city study data showing an 11% property value increase from road raising. Schipper explains how adaptation infrastructure can simply displace risk or trigger climate gentrification.8:44–12:25 · Guest teaching 5/10 Global Perspectives on Maladaptation and Infrastructure Pitfalls Lacey grounds the discussion in the 1990s origins of the term maladaptation. Schipper educates listeners by breaking down three categories of maladaptation and detailing a Fiji seawall case study.12:26–15:29 · Guest teaching 4/10 Navigating Urgent Infrastructure Spending and Climate Resilience Lacey presses on whether urgent federal infrastructure spending could inadvertently drive maladaptation. Schipper candidly acknowledges the tension between the ticking clock to act and the risk of poorly designed projects.15:36–16:37 · Guest teaching 3/10 Human Impacts and Key Takeaways for Urban Adaptation Lacey summarizes key takeaways from the IPCC findings. Harris emphasizes the social dimension of adaptation, noting that policy leaders must prioritize vulnerable residents alongside physical infrastructure.0:02–2:56 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Experiencing Sunny Day Flooding in Miami Lacey provides narrative framing around the UN climate report and the concept of maladaptation, while Harris describes on-the-ground flooding realities in Miami. The dynamic is fully collaborative and explanatory.2:58–6:07 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Carbon Copy Introduction and Defining Maladaptation Lacey introduces Dr. Schipper and contextualizes political reactions to king tides in Miami. Schipper defines maladaptation and Harris shares statistics on avoided tidal floods after road-raising.6:07–8:41 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Climate Gentrification and the Unintended Consequences of Adaptation Lacey cites specific city study data showing an 11% property value increase from road raising. Schipper explains how adaptation infrastructure can simply displace risk or trigger climate gentrification.8:44–12:25 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Global Perspectives on Maladaptation and Infrastructure Pitfalls Lacey grounds the discussion in the 1990s origins of the term maladaptation. Schipper educates listeners by breaking down three categories of maladaptation and detailing a Fiji seawall case study.12:26–15:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Navigating Urgent Infrastructure Spending and Climate Resilience Lacey presses on whether urgent federal infrastructure spending could inadvertently drive maladaptation. Schipper candidly acknowledges the tension between the ticking clock to act and the risk of poorly designed projects.15:36–16:37 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Human Impacts and Key Takeaways for Urban Adaptation Lacey summarizes key takeaways from the IPCC findings. Harris emphasizes the social dimension of adaptation, noting that policy leaders must prioritize vulnerable residents alongside physical infrastructure.0:02–2:56 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Experiencing Sunny Day Flooding in Miami Lacey provides narrative framing around the UN climate report and the concept of maladaptation, while Harris describes on-the-ground flooding realities in Miami. The dynamic is fully collaborative and explanatory.2:58–6:07 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 The Carbon Copy Introduction and Defining Maladaptation Lacey introduces Dr. Schipper and contextualizes political reactions to king tides in Miami. Schipper defines maladaptation and Harris shares statistics on avoided tidal floods after road-raising.6:07–8:41 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Climate Gentrification and the Unintended Consequences of Adaptation Lacey cites specific city study data showing an 11% property value increase from road raising. Schipper explains how adaptation infrastructure can simply displace risk or trigger climate gentrification.8:44–12:25 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Global Perspectives on Maladaptation and Infrastructure Pitfalls Lacey grounds the discussion in the 1990s origins of the term maladaptation. Schipper educates listeners by breaking down three categories of maladaptation and detailing a Fiji seawall case study.12:26–15:29 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 Navigating Urgent Infrastructure Spending and Climate Resilience Lacey presses on whether urgent federal infrastructure spending could inadvertently drive maladaptation. Schipper candidly acknowledges the tension between the ticking clock to act and the risk of poorly designed projects.15:36–16:37 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Human Impacts and Key Takeaways for Urban Adaptation Lacey summarizes key takeaways from the IPCC findings. Harris emphasizes the social dimension of adaptation, noting that policy leaders must prioritize vulnerable residents alongside physical infrastructure.

speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the hosts 2.1% · guest 97.9%0:00 · the hosts 2.1% · guest 97.9%3:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:31 Schipper criticizes superficial climate actions

Schipper points out that many organizations act in the name of climate adaptation without truly understanding what it requires.

Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 12:26 Lacey questions if federal funding accelerates maladaptation

Lacey challenges the optimism surrounding massive infrastructure spending by probing whether it could actually incentivize more maladaptation.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:35 Schipper explains infrastructural failure in Fiji

Schipper educates the audience by illustrating how a protective seawall in Fiji failed by trapping rainfall on the inside.

The host holds their own ▶ 6:47 Lacey cites Miami Beach property value data

Lacey demonstrates domain knowledge by citing a specific city study showing an 11% property value increase following road raising.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe hosts as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe hosts pushing backWhy
Experiencing Sunny Day Flooding in Miami 4200 Lacey provides narrative framing around the UN climate report and the concept of maladaptation, while Harris describes on-the-ground flooding realities in Miami. The dynamic is fully collaborative and explanatory.
The Carbon Copy Introduction and Defining Maladaptation 4300 Lacey introduces Dr. Schipper and contextualizes political reactions to king tides in Miami. Schipper defines maladaptation and Harris shares statistics on avoided tidal floods after road-raising.
Climate Gentrification and the Unintended Consequences of Adaptation 4300 Lacey cites specific city study data showing an 11% property value increase from road raising. Schipper explains how adaptation infrastructure can simply displace risk or trigger climate gentrification.
Global Perspectives on Maladaptation and Infrastructure Pitfalls 4510 Lacey grounds the discussion in the 1990s origins of the term maladaptation. Schipper educates listeners by breaking down three categories of maladaptation and detailing a Fiji seawall case study.
Navigating Urgent Infrastructure Spending and Climate Resilience 5411 Lacey presses on whether urgent federal infrastructure spending could inadvertently drive maladaptation. Schipper candidly acknowledges the tension between the ticking clock to act and the risk of poorly designed projects.
Human Impacts and Key Takeaways for Urban Adaptation 3300 Lacey summarizes key takeaways from the IPCC findings. Harris emphasizes the social dimension of adaptation, noting that policy leaders must prioritize vulnerable residents alongside physical infrastructure.

Statements from this episode (12)

Assertion Supported
Harris: Miami floods put fish in streets, octopuses in garages
“And it's led to fish on the street. It's led to octopuses in parking garages.”
Alex Harris Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 0:14
Prediction Open · timeframe Mar 2052
Harris: Miami must spend $6B on climate adaptation over 30 years
“The city of Miami specifically is going to have to spend around six billion dollars in the next 20 or 30 years installing stormwater pumps, raising roads, making the pipes underneath the road big enough to handle all the extra water, and fixing seawalls.”
Alex Harris Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 2:24
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Harris: Flawed adaptation could make parts of Miami unlivable within decades
“And if they do it right, they create an area that people continue to invest in and live in For decades, and if they do it wrong, they doom parts of the city to be flooded and unlivable and uninvestable in the next 20 or 30 years.”
Alex Harris Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 2:38
Assertion Supported
Schipper: Scientists struggle to prevent climate maladaptation despite IPCC focus
“We don't know so much how we can prevent it, but it's something that has Taking quite a big spot in the IPCC report that just came out.”
Dr. Lisa Schipper Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 3:49
Assertion Supported
Lacey: IPCC report cites Miami adaptation efforts for worsening resident conditions
“The report cites Miami as a city where efforts to adapt to climate change might actually be leaving some people worse off.”
Stephen Lacey Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 4:03
Assertion Supported
Harris: Miami Beach is first US community to dramatically raise roads
“Miami Beach is the first community in the U.S. To dramatically raise roads.”
Alex Harris Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 5:47
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Harris: Sunset Harbour avoided 157 tidal floods since 2018 road-raising
“One neighborhood in Miami Beach, known as Sunset Harbor, since they raised roads in 2018, they've avoided a 157 tidal floods.”
Alex Harris Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 5:59
Assertion Supported
Lacey: Miami Beach study found flood investments raised property values by 11%
“The city paid for a study on the impact of these investments in combating flooding and found that property values increased by 11%”
Stephen Lacey Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 6:52
Insight
Schipper: Protective adaptation structures often shift hazard exposure to other groups
“So you kind of create these structures that protect certain groups, but then Other groups become more exposed as a consequence of the way that the structures are designed.”
Dr. Lisa Schipper Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 7:56
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Harris: Climate gentrification will repeatedly occur across mainland Florida communities
“I could definitely see this phenomenon happening over and over again on the mainland as, you know, the problem gets worse and cities and counties spend more money to do things like raising roads.”
Alex Harris Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 8:16
Assertion Supported
Schipper: Flawed Fiji seawall trapped rainwater and created new flooding hazards
“In one case in Fiji, where you have a seawall that was built, but they didn't take into account the fact that it actually also rains, and there needs to be rain, water needs to drain, and so what happened was on the inside of the wall, There was a lot of flood…”
Dr. Lisa Schipper Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 12:05
Opinion
Schipper: Many climate adaptation organizations fundamentally misunderstand the problem
“There are lots of groups acting in the name of climate change and in the name of adaptation, but not actually understanding what either is.”
Dr. Lisa Schipper Mar 22, 2022 ▶ 14:42
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