The Exchanges

Q But how did they get in, how did they get on radio or MTV if they were independent?

A This idea, the power of emerging subculture, They were building something on the way up. Remember, man, if you get 200,000 people who love you, the amount of money in that is tremendous, and they grow with you. They didn't need MTV and radio at the time. They may have had a local radio station. They were down in New Orleans. They had a community of people who bought into this idea, and they were building No Limit Records, and that contagion and growth kept going throughout the South. And, and, you know, at some point, MTV had to play it. You couldn't be left out. Right? So it wasn't about you, you, you needed it at some point because it was so popular versus it needing you to break.

AI assessment note: “at some point, MTV had to play it. You couldn't be left out.”

Q Ok, so I read, Jay-Z's like, I read the book, and I'll just avoid doing that, and then he came into the game independent, I think he, the, the, the founding of Rockefeller. So he got it, and he got it back in, what, 96? How the hell are you still telling the story in 2000?

A Hold on, wait, what's that matter? You know, Jay got it, Because he was turned down. Record companies wouldn't sign him. A guy that talented, they wouldn't sign him. He had no choice but to go independent. He figured it out, and then when he got independent, he obviously figured it out. Master P figured it out. Cash Money figured it out to a certain extent, because there's different versions of this. There's different versions of guys figuring it out, like, there's a figuring it out where you like, I own the whole fucking thing, it's mine, and you're my partner, and I pay you a percentage, right? Then there's a version of it like, look, I'm not gonna allow one contract to hold everybody, which was Wu Tang's thing. The RZA had a record deal, and it didn't work. Then he came back. And invented this thing called Wu-Tang, and he made sure that he did not sign what he had signed prior, uh, when he was Prince Rakeem, an artist.

AI assessment note: “Hold on, wait, what's that matter? You know, Jay got it, Because he was turned down.”

Q Had you met Jay before in person or no?

A I'd seen him before, but like, we didn't know each other like that, and I didn't give a fuck, and neither did he. And he come to the office. I'm at Sony at the time, and they're like, so we speak on the phone, and he's like, we're coming to see you right now. I'm like, great, I'm at Five 50 Madison. And they come upstairs, and I'm sure that, I didn't even notice at the time, they thought, oh, we're going upstairs, and he's probably gonna have some guys, and there's gonna be like a, you know, some face-off or some version of that. I guess. They came upstairs, I let them upstairs, you know, front desk, let them up, they come upstairs, and I'm by myself barefoot. And I'm like, and you've seen their face. And I'm like, listen, I don't want to have an argument about anything about Anything that doesn't involve big houses. They just start laughing. I'm like, you know, some big houses involved. This is a stupid conversation. And then like literally after.

AI assessment note: “I'd seen him before, but like, we didn't know each other like that”

Q Wait, did you do that deal, or was that before you?

A That was way before me, but I remember when he said, you know, the, the line, like, he said the line, you know, first thing first, obey your thirst, and like, he talked about Sprite. Like, you've seen these things, or St. Ides malt liquor. You should look at these ads with, with, with, with Ice Cube and St. Ides. Like, these, These, these things were so powerful that hip-hop would be working with these brands, and like, it would influence urban culture immediately. And when I talk about urban culture, I'm talking about dense cities, not even black kids. I'm talking about just dense inner city, uh, uh, uh, you know, I use it as a measurement of space, density of people. They would gravitate towards these products that these artists talked about either in their, in their music or did blatant acts for. So by the time I had gotten to Will Smith and Men in Black, I mean, I had seen it for 25 years, but it still wasn't mainstream cultural impactful yet for reasons that I still don't understand. Like, it was very clear and obvious, but You know, like most things, when the alternative is working, when the incumbent can still rely on the old business practice, they won't disrupt themselves, they'll just keep doing that, right? Like, why would I invest any money in understanding hip-hop when Kenny G is still selling? I mean, no disrespect to Kenny G, Michael Bolton is still selling, what…

AI assessment note: “That was way before me, but I remember”

Q Wait, wait, wait, what do you mean? I don't want to be involved in anything big house. You say it's like a small deal.

A Yeah, like money. If we're not talking about a lot of motherfucking money, what are we talking about? So my, my analogy to that was just big houses. I'm like, are we talking about big houses? Because it doesn't even matter unless we're talking about big houses. They love that shit. Started laughing, and then Jay and I became friends and started playing Madden all the time, and then realized that our, not realized, but my, my cousin was his cousin. My, uh, my father's brothers My father and brother married a woman that happened to be, ah, connected to his side of the family. They were cousins. So my, my, my cousin was his cousin. So he was, we were second cousins. And like, that all came out because we started to hang out with each other. It was like, oh shit, right, that's true. Oh fuck, I didn't even realize that. And we, you know, ensued us.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, like money. If we're not talking about a lot of motherfucking money”

Q Dude, how many people are wearing Jordans without playing basketball on them?

A It was the only white space left, because there was no way I could market Reebok as the age, as the agency of record at the time. I told Paul, I'm like, Mr. Fireman, There is no way I can convince a sixteen-year-old they can jump higher or run faster than Nike and Reeboks. Like, like, that's not happening, ok? So, like, let's go into the other thing, which is the non-performance stuff. And it got so hot. That we got a chance to go into the performance business again, and we were trying to sign Kobe, and I have great stories of, you know, pitching Kobe. First of all, I signed Kobe to a record deal, recording contract when he was a, a rookie, and then we pitched LeBron. That's how LeBron and I became good friends to this day, when we pitched LeBron, and he, um, he has a famous story of LeBron. Uh, we're pitching him for Reebok. We, you know, they send a plane. Everybody wants to sign him. I, I tell Paul, while he's coming in from Akron, we're flying from New York to, uh, to Boston to meet him there. And I'm like, Paul, we do this in the record business and it works. You give an artist in advance. And you give it, you bring the advance right there.

AI assessment note: “So, like, let's go into the other thing, which is the non-performance stuff.”