Sep 27, 2021 · 1h 11m · capital-allocators
Friends Reunion – Five Allocators Riff on Investing (Capital Allocators, EP.215)
Brett Barth · 17m spoken Casey Whalen · 17m spoken Ted Seides · 17m spoken Jon Harris · 7m spoken Meredith Jenkins · 3m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this special reunion roundtable, Ted Seides gathers veteran institutional allocators Brett Barth, John Harris, Meredith Jenkins, and Casey Whalen to reflect on their shared history and debate key investment topics across private equity, crypto, non-US equities, and LP-GP dynamics.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Ted holds 27.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Ted as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 1.4 Ted pushing back 2.1
speaking balance: gold is Ted, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 22:45 Brett Barth rejects the premise that crypto equals growth tech underwriting
Brett explicitly rejects Ted's comparison between crypto psychology and venture tech, arguing that biotech and software investments feature verifiable revenue models and total addressable market projections.
Hardest push from Ted ▶ 53:43 Casey Whalen challenges Ted's critique of diversity allocationsCasey directly pushes back on Ted's argument that targeting diverse fund managers is structurally unviable today, providing specific examples of scalable, high-performing female venture capital founders.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 30:34 Brett Barth breaks down the realities of Venezuelan sovereign debtBrett educates Ted on the severe illiquidity, legal enforcement hurdles, and sanction constraints of Venezuelan assets, demonstrating why theoretical cheapness fails to translate into realized returns.
Ted holds their own ▶ 1:09:34 Ted Seides explains unlearning rigid institutional dogmaTed demonstrates his evolved perspective by explaining how he broke free from traditional institutional value biases to embrace founder-aligned, value-add investing.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Ted as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Ted pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Post-COVID Reconnecting, Personal Stories, and Banter | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Casual conversational warm-up between longtime friends catching up on personal lives, COVID experiences, and health anecdotes. Ted facilitates playful banter with no contentious debate. | |
| Cryptocurrency Speculation versus Blockchain and DeFi Infrastructure | 5 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Ted probes Brett's agnostic stance on crypto by citing Chris Dixon's internet domain thesis. Brett pushes back on the analogy by differentiating speculative commodity assets from practical utility and decentralized transaction rails. | |
| Toe-Dipping Allocations, Avoiding FOMO, and Educational Conviction | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Ted inquires into how allocators scale up initial toe-dipping investments. Casey, Brett, and John elaborate on using targeted manager relationships for ongoing education while guarding against retail FOMO. | |
| Nuances in Private Equity, Buyout Multiples, and Arbitrage | 5 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Ted questions whether the Swensen playbook prevents them from backing public GP asset-gatherers. Casey and Brett detail their preference for smaller, nimble GPs who generate multiple arbitrage by feeding assets to mega-funds. | |
| Meredith Jenkins Arrives: Health Updates and Shared Histories | 5 | 5 | 3 | 3 | Meredith Jenkins joins the group and shares skepticism regarding crypto valuations amid abundant market liquidity. When Ted suggests underwriting crypto is similar to unprofitable tech, Brett firmly disagrees by contrasting speculative tokens with fundamental biotech and venture TAM modeling. | |
| Personal Account Flexibility versus Institutional Due Diligence Standards | 6 | 5 | 2 | 3 | Ted presents a case study of a business school peer's turnaround fund in Venezuela as an unconstrained opportunity. Brett counters with his own firsthand experience with Venezuelan sovereign restructuring and legal disputes, emphasizing uninsurable operational risks. | |
| Alpha Opportunities in Non-US Long/Short Equity Strategies | 6 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Casey and Brett lay out the case for European and Asian long/short equity where structural market inefficiencies persist. Ted playfully teases that they are the only people left in Manhattan bullish on long/short hedge funds. | |
| Institutional Scale, Collaborative Due Diligence, and LP-GP Alignment | 5 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Ted asks whether growing to twenty billion in AUM changes Brett's deal flow dynamics. Brett and Casey explain how operating in the institutional sweet spot allows them to partner constructively on operational due diligence without grading or penalizing managers. | |
| Macro Anxieties: US-China Tech Competition and Cybersecurity Risks | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | John expresses frustration regarding domestic strategic complacency compared to China's focused state-backed talent deployment in cybersecurity, military tech, and AI, prompting shared reflections on screen time and technology. | |
| Diversity and Pipeline Dynamics in Institutional Asset Management | 5 | 5 | 2 | 3 | Ted posits that allocator quotas for emerging diverse managers are structurally misguided because spinoffs require mature track records. Casey and Meredith offer nuanced counterarguments, showing how women-led venture capital and early pipeline mentoring produce immediate outperformance. | |
| ESG Evaluation, Energy Transition, and Unmasking Greenwashing | 5 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Brett explains BBR's proprietary ESG Rankinator and the economic reality of fossil fuel terminal value risk. Meredith illustrates greenwashing as glossy marketing collateral lacking authentic investment analyst engagement. | |
| Formative Mentors and Lifelong Influences on Careers | 4 | 3 | 0 | 1 | The panel members take turns reflecting on key formative mentors who influenced their careers and investment philosophies, highlighting David Swensen, Goldman Sachs partners, and family role models. | |
| Career Evolution, Knowledge Sharing, and Allocator Collaboration | 6 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Casey turns the tables by asking Ted how his perspectives have shifted since transitioning from an endowment allocator to a podcast host and community aggregator. Ted discusses unlearning rigid institutional value orthodoxies to embrace open knowledge sharing. |
Statements from this episode (25)
Barth: Firm avoids crypto because its only thesis is greater-fool pricing
“I think of crypto as a commodity like gold, and I have a very hard time, or we as a firm have a very hard time investing in anything where the only investment case is that someone will pay more in the future than you do today.”
Barth: Firm has venture investments in blockchain and DeFi
“We have done a decent amount of investing, including venture investing in blockchain and DeFi.”
Barth: Capital destruction in crypto could wipe out profits despite game-changing technology
“Like this could be a game changing technology but the destruction of capital because of so much money flowing in, we could all be changing how we trade, how we clear, how we transact, how we communicate, but it's not clear any of us will have made money on tha…”
Whalen: Toe-dipping investments build conviction to size up during dislocations
“When you dip your toe in, when you're invested in something, you just learn more. You pay more attention. You live it and breathe it, right? The ups and the downs. And so for me, and I think by being invested in it, you then get greater conviction if there is …”
Barth: Toe-dipping in emerging assets means backing focused specialists, not whole ecosystems
“Dipping your toe in isn't getting long the ecosystem. It's finding one or two really thoughtful partners who are sharpshooters. So you're not buying the asset class, so to speak. You're finding thought partners who can help educate you, and you're finding thou…”
Whalen: Mega private equity funds act as misaligned coupon clippers
“The large, huge funds that are raising that are, we call them the coupon clippers that are raising, sure, I'm going to offend some people, but too much money, and it's misaligned”
Whalen: Private markets are less risky than public equities
“I would argue it's less risky than the public markets. Like, if you asked me to put another dollar today, In the public markets or with our private managers, and I love our public managers, but it would definitely be in the private markets.”
Whalen: Firm avoids buyouts due to insane valuations and leverage
“We're not doing a lot of buyouts right now because the valuations we think are insane and the leverage multiples are really high.”
Barth: Small PE firms create repeatable value selling to mega-funds
“One of the other things we love about private equity is if you can create food for that ecosystem, it's a risk, wash, repeat process of I buy something small and I sell it to the big guys.”
Jenkins: Crypto is driven by crazy liquidity, not fundamental value
“It is the beneficiary of just ridiculous, crazy liquidity in the world, and I don't get where the fundamental value is right now.”
Whalen: Fiduciaries cannot invest in crypto without fundamental frameworks
“We're fiduciaries, so we have to hang our, I always say we have to hang our hat on being able to evaluate why we're doing, is it fundamental value, and have kind of a framework around it, and I just think it's crypto in that regard. We don't want to put our he…”
Jenkins: Sub-Saharan Africa Frontier Markets Are Exceptionally Cheap and Will Rebound
“Looking at frontier markets in Sub-Saharan Africa, I've had both phenomenal and absolutely awful experiences there. I would today absolutely put my money in it yesterday, given where valuations are, and if I'm a long-term investor, I do think it's gonna come b…”
Barth: Indirect play on Venezuelan sovereign bonds has returned zero
“We've been long Venezuela through an indirect play on sovereign bonds for three plus years, and the underwriting has been perfect, and we've made no money.”
Whalen: Migrated Long/Short Equity Portfolio Almost Entirely to Non-US Markets
“We decided probably five years ago to start migrating the whole portfolio with the exception of maybe one manager to non U S just with this idea again, that people kind of looked at us a little weird, but we said just inefficiency, where is it less efficient?”
Barth: BBR Pays Far Below Rack-Rate Fees for Small Long/Short Managers
“Because it's been such an unloved asset class, we don't pay anywhere near rack rate fees. It's smaller managers. For us with families, it's also managers who've been much more focused on tax efficiency, and so our ability to generate really attractive After fe…”
Whalen: Japan Is a Wonderful Market for Long/Short Equity
“I think, like, Japan is a wonderful long short market.”
Whalen: Retaining fund managers for 20 years likely yields poor results
“I think, you know, if you're still invested with the managers you were invested with 20 years ago, I'm not sure you've had a great experience.”
Harris: Extraordinary Capital Will Flow into Defense Tech and Cybersecurity
“And we're spending a lot of time on that from an investment standpoint, because the amount of money that's going to be going into this It's going to be extraordinary, and you've already started seeing it.”
Harris: China Directs Top Talent to AI While US Focuses on Apps
“They took their best and brightest, and they've been working on AI. They've been working on cybersecurity. Our best and brightest have been creating apps and games.”
Whalen: Scarcity of senior women leads to fierce competitive poaching
“There's now so few women at the top that they're all getting taken away from firms, right? Competitively. So it's an even bigger problem for people who've maybe even tried to do it.”
Seides: Immediate push to back new diverse-owned funds is structurally misguided
“A lot of the response that I've seen from the people I talked to is we're going to go invest in a diverse manager, a diverse owned manager and my contention all along is that's incredibly misguided because the structure of the industry today was created based …”
Whalen: Majority-ownership diversity rules disadvantage female fund founders
“The other issue that happens that we see is there's these pockets of money that you have to be majority owned by a woman, and I think that also just kind of is hurting the women who are leading firms, but maybe had to take outside capital to get started becaus…”
Barth: California carbon credits are one of BBR's top 2021 investments
“We've also made a lot of money on California carbon credits. Actually, year to date, one of our best investments.”
Barth: Oil exploration cash flows are unanalyzable due to uncertain terminal value
“If you don't have a sustainable business model, back to the, we invest in cash flows, you can't analyze what the cash flows are of a Oil exploration and production company. Cause I can't tell you what the terminal value is.”