Jun 16, 2021 · 1h 7m · big-technology
Andrew Ross Sorkin on Meme Stocks, Bitcoin, SPACs, and Elon Musk
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On the Big Technology Podcast, journalist Andrew Ross Sorkin joins host Alex Kantrowitz to examine contemporary market manias, Big Tech antitrust challenges, and growing wealth inequality. The discussion provides critical analysis of meme stocks, cryptocurrencies, SPACs, App Store monopoly litigation, and billionaire tax reform.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Alex holds 30.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Alex as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 2.7 Alex pushing back 3.3
speaking balance: gold is Alex, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 4:02 Sorkin dismisses the meme stock defense
Sorkin flatly rejects the host's premise that meme stock trading is just regular retail momentum trading, stating bluntly that he does not buy it.
Hardest push from Alex ▶ 16:43 Alex challenges SEC enforcement capabilityAlex pushes back against Sorkin's optimism about regulatory action by pointing out the SEC's complete inability to rein in Elon Musk's tweets.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 37:55 Sorkin clarifies legal definition of monopolySorkin educates the host on legal antitrust fundamentals, noting that being a monopoly itself is not illegal without predatory maintenance.
Alex holds their own ▶ 46:40 Alex breaks down congressional antitrust billsAlex displays deep reporting knowledge by outlining precise draft legislation circulating in the House Judiciary Committee on anti-steering and proprietary data rules.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Alex as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Alex pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| The Psychology and Mechanics of Meme Stocks | 5 | 6 | 4 | 4 | Alex prompts the discussion by bringing up common retail investor defenses for meme stocks. Sorkin firmly rejects that narrative, breaking down the difference between informed institutional momentum trading and uninformed retail mania on Reddit. Alex counters by pointing to sustained high prices for GameStop and AMC and comparing them to Tesla. | |
| SEC Enforcement and Systemic Risks of Market Manipulation | 6 | 5 | 3 | 4 | Alex questions the feasibility and enforcement track record of the SEC regarding retail trading and figures like Elon Musk. Sorkin brings up Gary Gensler's regulatory ambitions and cites a historical Michael Lewis article about a prosecuted teenage market manipulator to show precedent. | |
| Cryptocurrency Hype, Valuation Realities, and Inflationary Narratives | 6 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Alex and Sorkin explore Bitcoin's valuation, regulatory risks, and whether it serves as an inflation hedge. Sorkin articulates how 401(k) adoption will trigger strict KYC/AML regulations that destroy Bitcoin's core appeal of anonymity. | |
| Debt Leverage, Historical Crises, and Growing Wealth Inequality | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Sorkin references lessons from writing 'Too Big to Fail', diagnosing that all financial crises stem from systemic leverage rather than isolated bad actors. Both agree on the troubling widening divergence between asset owners and wage workers. | |
| Evaluating SPACs and the Rhetoric of Financial Democratization | 5 | 5 | 3 | 3 | Alex asks whether SPACs are legitimate or scams, citing reporting on Chamath Palihapitiya. Sorkin offers a nuanced view, predicting long-term survival under tightened regulation while calling out the hypocrisy of democratizing finance without disclosing structural risks. | |
| Mid-Show Break and Andrew Ross Sorkin's Antitrust Background | 6 | 6 | 4 | 5 | Sorkin details his antitrust background via his father and analyzes the Epic v. Apple case, arguing Apple is not a legal monopoly under current market definitions. Alex pushes back by noting that smartphones have essentially become the internet and lock-in effects limit consumer switching. | |
| Congressional Tech Legislation, Platform Data, and Breakup Prospects | 7 | 3 | 2 | 4 | Alex shows high domain expertise by reviewing five specific draft antitrust bills from Congress regarding developer steering and third-party data misuse. Sorkin acknowledges regulatory momentum but remains skeptical that tech giants will face outright breakups. | |
| Billionaire Wealth, Tax Inequities, and Reform Proposals | 5 | 5 | 3 | 3 | The conversation shifts to Elon Musk, billionaire ego, and the ProPublica tax revelations. Sorkin lays out concrete, unorthodox tax policy ideas, such as reforming step-up basis, capping interest deductions on stock loans, and taxing charitable stock donations over five million dollars. | |
| The Future of Podcasting, Live Audio, and Content Curation | 7 | 2 | 1 | 2 | The roles flip as Sorkin interviews Alex about audio industry trends, monetization models, and RSS versus walled gardens. Alex speaks extensively from personal experience as an independent creator about audience acquisition and platform lock-in. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Sorkin: Valuations of AMC, GameStop, and Bed Bath are divorced from reality
“The AMC apes and the GameStop hysteria and don't forget Bed Bath and beyond or some of the others that are completely and utterly divorced from reality, Alex.”
Sorkin: Downside crash for meme stock retail investors is inevitable
“I think it's also about protecting them on the downside, and it's almost impossible to believe that the downside won't come.”
Sorkin: AMC CEO is selling shares at vastly overvalued prices
“And I don't want to say he's taking advantage of them, but if they're taking advantage, he's taking advantage by selling shares to them at prices that I think he knows full well are vastly overvalued.”
Sorkin: Retail investors cannot drive meme surges in mega-cap stocks
“I mean, it would be very hard For a retail base of investors to move the stock of an Apple or a Walmart or an Amazon in this kind of way.”
Sorkin: The Russell 2000 is performing well because AMC and GameStop are in it
“I mean, one of the things that's so interesting is if you own the Russell 2000, which is an index, passive index, it's actually doing quite well, almost spectacularly so. Why? Because AMC and GameStop are part of it.”
Sorkin: SEC Chair Gary Gensler might target Elon Musk and SPAC promoters
“And so could he go after some individuals? I wouldn't be surprised if he weren't, and I wouldn't be surprised if he even went after an Elon Musk. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to go after some of the people some of the higher profile people involved in S…”
Sorkin: MicroStrategy has turned into a leveraged Bitcoin fund
“Michael Saylor at MicroStrategy. He's now effectively raising money from public investors in taking out loans. This is like a, his company's turned into a leveraged, basically a leveraged Bitcoin fund is effectively what it is.”
Sorkin doubts Bitcoin will remain uncorrelated when liquidity stops
“There's a lot of money floating around, and the question is, when the music stops, and the music will stop, is Bitcoin somehow completely not correlated to all, to everything else? I have a hard time believing that”
Sorkin: Every financial crisis is driven solely by excessive debt leverage
“Every financial crisis is really only a function of one thing. It's too much debt. It's too much credit leverage in the system.”
Sorkin: The SPAC boom will lead to tighter regulations and better practices
“I think that this sort of SPAC phenomenon we're seeing is probably going to be long-term actually a good thing for SPACs insofar as they're going to create more regulations and other policies and better practices around these things so that they're not effecti…”
Sorkin predicts Chamath Palihapitiya will be remembered as the SPAC king
“I think 20 years from now, he will get credit as the SPAC king.”
Sorkin: Proponents of 'democratizing finance' fail to protect everyday investors
“What I find so strange, what I find so strange is the people who are, who Say they're trying to democratize finance seem to do such a lousy job of actually trying to protect the people that they say they're democratizing it for.”
Sorkin: Apple is not an antitrust monopoly in Epic case or broadly
“I don't think Apple is a monopoly in the way it's being argued in the construct of the Epic case clearly, and probably More, more broadly, I don't think it's a monopoly either yet.”
Sorkin: Apple App Store fee terms have only stayed flat or decreased
“In fact, at Apple, the terms have actually only gotten better, right? They've, first of all, they've either been at 30% or in some cases they've since come down.”
Sorkin: Forcing multiple App Stores on iPhone will make hardware more expensive
“Let's say there was now multiple app stores in the iPhone. What happens? It just means that the hardware will get more expensive. That's a good point. It'll get passed on to you.”
Sorkin: Amazon is unlikely to get broken up
“Do I think that Amazon unto itself is going to get broken up? I'd be very hard pressed to see that really happen.”
Sorkin: Facebook will not ultimately be broken up
“I think Facebook will ultimately get broken up? No, I don't.”
Sorkin: Large charitable stock transfers by billionaires should be taxed
“I very unpopularly would probably tax great philanthropy, meaning most philanthropists, including Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, effectively are transferring shares Typically founder shares into their foundations or to a charity, which means that those shares, …”