Meta, every mention
247 scenes, the whole family · ← back to Meta
tap a year for its mentions
every year anyone Benedict Evans 577Toni Cowan-Brown 51Bernadette Kevins 6Lillian Li 2
Verbatim, from the transcripts: the passages where Meta comes up
Token pricing
- ▶ 4:54 Benedict Evans Um, Meta's new model is in striking distance too.
- ▶ 8:48 Benedict Evans Everyone pays their money, but all the stuff you do with it is done by other people, and all the actual money is made by Meta, and Google, and Amazon, and, um, Tinder, and Uber, and everybody else.
- ▶ 12:21 Benedict Evans Um, you know, it's like Sacha Baron Cohen saying, well, talking about Facebook, saying, well, you wouldn't let somebody walk into your restaurant and say these things, so why would you let people say those things on Facebook? 3 times in the scene
- ▶ 17:00 Benedict Evans So like Facebook win in America, maybe Bebo will win, um, um, was it Bebo? 3 times in the scene
The spring updates on AI
- ▶ 5:46 Benedict Evans And B, you don't want to be dependent on somebody else and the agenda to be set by other people, which is a situation that very obviously Meta was in on mobile.
- ▶ 18:08 Benedict Evans So, um, the sort of thing I've spent a lot of time thinking about from time to time, like comes and goes over the last decade or two is to think about recommendation systems that, you know, Amazon and Google and Meta don't really know what…
- ▶ 27:17 Benedict Evans I was actually having a conversation with some people at a private equity firm a while ago, and I kind of pointed out, like, the last 15 years, you kind of knew what mobile, you certainly knew what the internet was and how this worked,…
- ▶ 37:27 Benedict Evans Of course, you know, if you looked at Twitter 10 years ago, there was an awful lot of slop on Twitter and Facebook before.
The end of the network effect
- ▶ 1:27 Benedict Evans Consumer computing has been based on network effects, that we had Windows and Intel, and then we had, with the web, we had Google, and then Facebook, and Amazon, and then the things that Facebook bought, and we had the iOS and Android,… 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 7:22 Benedict Evans You don't have the existing feature set that Google and Meta and Microsoft and Apple and Amazon and everybody else have where they can add it and Salesforce and, you know, Workday and, you know, Figma and everyone else, some of them, some…
- ▶ 10:08 Benedict Evans You know, Facebook strategy, you know, there's lots of ways you can talk about Facebook strategy, a lot of which is about great execution, but, you know, it's, or there are other things going on there. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 12:39 Benedict Evans Now, of course, you can take the counterpoint here and say, well, if you look at the reality of Microsoft or the reality of Meta, they would never thought they'd won.
- ▶ 18:06 Toni Cowan-Brown And Meta benefits from that sort of kind of network effect.
- ▶ 23:34 Benedict Evans Google and Meta and everybody else has. 3 times in the scene
AI and SaaS
- ▶ 1:47 Benedict Evans But Meta and Google and Amazon have more or less doubled their cap, will say they're more or less doubled their capex this year.
- ▶ 18:28 Benedict Evans With Facebook in the late 2000 where they said, we're going to make everybody use mobile. 2 times in the scene
How does OpenAI compete?
- ▶ 8:50 Benedict Evans Meta might, maybe, maybe not,
- ▶ 16:02 Benedict Evans If you think that the answer is features, then Google and Meta and Apple and Amazon are doing great. 4 times in the scene
The AI presentation
- ▶ 7:58 Benedict Evans Um, and then there was AOL, and Pointcast, and Flash, and plugins, and portals, and Netscape, and everything, no one kind of knew what questions to ask, and how any of this was going to work, and, and, and, and Google was five years away,…
- ▶ 21:04 Benedict Evans The basis of competition turned out to be network effects, whether it's for Windows or Facebook. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 25:55 Benedict Evans Let's talk about how much money these companies are spending on infrastructure, and let's contrast the fact that Microsoft, Google, Amazon, and Meta are funding it out of cash flow, Meta less so than the others, whereas OpenAI 4 times in the scene
A double episode: AI differentiation, and Apple does F1
- ▶ 2:29 Benedict Evans They're all black and white line drawings, except for Google and Microsoft, which are, and Meta are colorful switches.
- ▶ 4:04 Benedict Evans Everyone used MySpace, and we did have network effects, and then people switched to Facebook, because it was better.
- ▶ 12:12 Benedict Evans And they, you've got those low-level primitives of sharing a slug of text or share a slug of video or share a comment, but actually Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and YouTube work very differently and Pinterest and, and then go off and… 3 times in the scene
- ▶ 22:53 Benedict Evans Meta tried to put their, put their app as like a blue circle, put the, but the AI thing is a blue circle inside all their apps and it just didn't work.
Looking for AI strategies
- ▶ 0:55 Benedict Evans Or you can pick up the iPhone, and Android, and BlackBerry, and Windows Phone, and Siri, and Memo, and MyGo, and like, all the stuff that was happening, and kind of think, well, they're trying to do this, and this product's trying to do…
- ▶ 6:36 Benedict Evans Um, and I'll say, we're going to put enough comment and stop monologuing, but it seems to me that like, you know, we were talking about this beforehand, um, you can talk about like the corporate strategies, like Meta is trying to make LLMs… 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 9:12 Benedict Evans Well, this is sort of my point about, you know, what is Meta trying to do at a corporate level versus what Amazon's trying to do at a corporate level versus what Apple and what, what, what, what, um, in a sense, you could kind of put a… 4 times in the scene
- ▶ 22:27 Benedict Evans Um, what is it, the Dario Amodi, if I'm pronouncing that right, you know, his public persona, um, the message that he goes out and tries to tell, what is the message that Meta and Google go out and try and tell, probably a rather 3 times in the scene
Ai eats the world
- ▶ 11:17 Benedict Evans And I ended that, but I ended that and you can, then you can talk about, you know, like meta trying to make this open source and trying to make it kind of a commodity and Apple trying to get it onto the device and, um, all sort of how much… 2 times in the scene
Google's Antitrust case
- ▶ 15:04 Benedict Evans Meta, sort of. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 20:43 Benedict Evans Well, not Meta, not Amazon.
- ▶ 26:41 Benedict Evans Which is kind of ironic, because the market definition, which is, we talked about before, Google tried to say, we don't have a monopoly because we compete with Amazon, and TikTok, and Facebook search, and with Booking.com for flight search.
Tiktok, Apple and Temu
- ▶ 12:25 Toni Cowan-Brown Um, yeah, that's what the rest of Europe and the rest of the world has experienced with, you know, Instagram, Meta,
- ▶ 12:31 Toni Cowan-Brown Facebook at the time, YouTube.
- ▶ 17:08 Benedict Evans And that's reflected in how Uber is regulated, or how, um, you think about content moderation requirements, and so the UK and the EU now have laws requiring, that basically require you to have what most people would consider like best…
- ▶ 19:58 Benedict Evans Meta could diverse, divest Instagram. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 25:18 Toni Cowan-Brown And they also have the strictest policy when it comes to political advertising, much more stricter than Meta now, how this is being applied and how this is being enforced is a whole other topic.
- ▶ 26:48 Benedict Evans The, the, the news this week is that the Temu or Timu spent two billion dollars on advertising, um, for, um, um, to, just for Facebook to build its business. 4 times in the scene
Google Gemini and AI bias
- ▶ 15:33 Benedict Evans But there was a moment when Twitter and Facebook were deleting anyone who said that. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 20:01 Benedict Evans And so if you want to do the scenario or just outlined, it's not like Facebook or Google or Adobe can stop you. 2 times in the scene
Breaking and remaking media
- ▶ 15:14 Benedict Evans It's not that Google and Facebook has a monopoly, which, although you can argue about that, the problem, newspapers problem is not that Google and Facebook have a monopoly. 2 times in the scene
Apple's Vision Pro
- ▶ 6:49 Benedict Evans Um, second impression maybe is, it's a bit, there's some bugs here and there, but my god, this thing is polished and integrated into the ecosystem in so many ways that MetaSand doesn't have, can't because it doesn't have all of that.
- ▶ 8:45 Benedict Evans And what I wrote last summer was that Meta basically has the right price and is working towards the right device. 6 times in the scene
- ▶ 14:03 Benedict Evans You know, neither is the weather, neither is Amazon, neither is Facebook.
AI and Everything Else
- ▶ 30:59 Benedict Evans I don't, you know, there's, we're kind of at that very early stage where, you know, go back and think about what it was like holding an iPhone in 2008 with the App Store, and there was no Uber, there was no Instagram, there was no Tinder,…
LLMs, links, and the death of links
- ▶ 3:22 Benedict Evans So they're basically trying to rebuild Medium or rebuild Facebook.
- ▶ 27:35 Benedict Evans Well, we are, but I was thinking of something slightly different, which is, you know, this is something that people got very upset about, about Facebook sort of five years ago, which is, you know, I built a bunch of Facebook friends by… 3 times in the scene
Unbundling ChatGPT
- ▶ 22:30 Benedict Evans You know, write me 500 ideas for Facebook ads and I'll leave a hundred of them.
Threads
- ▶ 0:13 Benedict Evans So, um, for anybody who is not deeply involved in the Silicon Valley bubble, um, Meta slash Instagram launched a sort of Twitter competitor, sort of not Twitter competitor called Threads two weeks ago. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 0:48 Benedict Evans He's claiming that Meta poached a bunch of employees and they're telling, um, him telling Facebook Twitter trade secrets. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 6:59 Toni Cowan-Brown Do you think Meta definitely, do we, do we know if Meta won a hundred percent capitalized on the moment or, or they were actually really ready? 6 times in the scene
- ▶ 11:37 Toni Cowan-Brown And just one piece, I like that you brought up trending topics as the thing that drives a lot of the toxicity, because there's been a whole conversation, we can dive into that later on as well, but tied to this, there's been a whole… 3 times in the scene
- ▶ 14:38 Benedict Evans And so the core challenge that, that, that they have to solve is, and this was always, we probably should have said this sort of 10 minutes ago, but like the core challenge, I think that the Facebook, that Twitter always had was you open… 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 15:59 Benedict Evans And before that was Facebook itself.
- ▶ 19:22 Benedict Evans And the same thing here, Meta is not building for people who've got 35 alphabetized lists. 5 times in the scene
- ▶ 24:35 Benedict Evans So they need to seed it, Meta need to seed this with Twitter power users. 4 times in the scene
- ▶ 27:56 Benedict Evans Um, Mesa are actually apparently being quite aggressive about blocking it, like blocking people who are using VPNs. 6 times in the scene
- ▶ 30:02 Benedict Evans Same thing for Facebook, incidentally. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 33:48 Benedict Evans So this is an interesting problem because, and it's the same problem that Facebook has indeed as well, which is how do you give users a share of ad revenue when you can't really see, well, you're just all in the feed.
Vision Pro, two weeks on
- ▶ 1:16 Benedict Evans So Meta sold maybe twenty million.
- ▶ 9:38 Benedict Evans Yeah, so, so another way of thinking about this price is that basically what Meta, Meta has roughly the right price, and they're working towards the right product.
- ▶ 15:26 Benedict Evans It's a VR, it's an AR experience delivered with VR hardware that you only use at home, and that will have sort of sales in volume in maybe twenty-twenty-five or twenty-twenty-six, and then there'll be the Vision Vision and the Vision SE… 4 times in the scene
- ▶ 26:14 Benedict Evans Here we are now, 10 years later, Meta has spent, I think, at least thirty five billion dollars on this stuff. 8 times in the scene
- ▶ 28:55 Benedict Evans Um, I mean, there was, it was a moment years ago when, um, Mark Zuckerberg, when, when Facebook was trying to do, this is the early days of Android, like, 2013, 14, so 10 years ago. 4 times in the scene
- ▶ 29:13 Benedict Evans And so Facebook made this thing called Facebook home.
- ▶ 31:05 Benedict Evans Yes, I was doing some back of the envelope math earlier, and like, if Meta, you know, like, depending on quite how much they've spent, quite many active users, Meta would spend somewhere between 10 and 20,000 dollars for each active user… 5 times in the scene
Apple Vision
- ▶ 12:57 Benedict Evans Um, it's also, I mean, the, the commonality with Meta is, um, 4 times in the scene
Working out AI questions
- ▶ 11:22 Benedict Evans Does have marginal cost, and yes, Google invested a lot of money in getting the latency down.
Buzzfeed News, Reddit and OpenAI
- ▶ 0:43 Benedict Evans So there's this thing, there's this thing that's been kind of bubbling around in the background, which is newspapers and newspaper lobbyists have constructed this argument that if, um, Google or Facebook link to them, then newspapers… 3 times in the scene
- ▶ 5:54 Benedict Evans Particularly what we've seen with Facebook is Facebook just sort of, well, it was the whole pivot to video thing. 4 times in the scene
- ▶ 31:10 Benedict Evans The idea that it actually costs money to press enter on a consumer internet site, like posting a pic, you're actually like a Facebook if it'd cost money to do a post.
Metaverse and crypto - beyond the BS
- ▶ 8:09 Benedict Evans And the question is, so you have this hypothesis on the one side from Meta, which is more time, more work, more engineering, more Moore's law, in effect. 4 times in the scene
- ▶ 31:02 Benedict Evans And if you were at Meta, and you thought, we're going to spend 10, twenty billion dollars a year for the next five years, and we're going to have something that's the PC, the smartphone, broadband, TV, the internet, and music all rolled…
GPT-4 is here, now what?
- ▶ 38:41 Benedict Evans Yeah, I mean, if you are going to, if you're going to, you know, build a new system that will just tell you what the story was without linking or giving you credit, that's very different from, um, you know, what Google and Facebook do,…
The right questions to ask about TikTok
- ▶ 1:44 Toni Cowan-Brown I think there's a bit of a conversation there worth having, and yet it seems to be output outperforming a lot of the social media platforms owned by us companies, whether that's Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat.
- ▶ 10:31 Benedict Evans I mean, this is the, these are the issues that, that kind of Facebook faces and, you know, they're kind of continually fiddling with it and tweaking it and shifting the weights, but it's not like an easy, straightforward kind of… 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 19:21 Benedict Evans Yeah, I mean, I, I think there's a sort of, um, it's almost like an incorrect analysis, which was, I'm trying to think of the right word, which is like, we kind of went down the line of thinking that TikTok competed with Instagram and… 3 times in the scene
- ▶ 38:59 Benedict Evans It's not the same as Facebook.
ChatGPT versus Google
- ▶ 1:10 Benedict Evans And of course, Google and Meta have been working on this for years as well.
- ▶ 5:46 Benedict Evans And why Facebook launched or Meta launched one of these in the summer and then withdrew it, is that it might be wrong. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 26:30 Benedict Evans One response to this is you shift as much as you possibly can onto the smartphone, because your smartphone, I mean, if you just bought an iPhone 14, like, I mean, we kind of think of Google or phone meta as having like infinite compute…
- ▶ 28:49 Benedict Evans Um, a lot of them are going to Google and Apple and Facebook.
- ▶ 31:21 Benedict Evans And then we should wrap up, which is, there's been this whole story from newspapers coming and going over the last couple of years of, um, Google and Facebook get value from the fact that there are links to our stuff on their websites,… 3 times in the scene
Generative AI
- ▶ 2:19 Benedict Evans And indeed, um, Jan LeCun from Facebook, 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 29:20 Benedict Evans Um, and of course the, you know, this kind of, the kind of question that circles around every now and then of like Google and Facebook should pay newspapers.
No Soup for You! Regulating tech M&A
- ▶ 0:20 Benedict Evans It's also in court over its attempt to stop Meta from buying within, which I think we've talked about before. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 2:34 Benedict Evans Um, and tech, of course, is visible and prominent, and nobody likes Google, and nobody likes Facebook, and so that gets you to sort of that lens now being applied to M&A, which is kind of the bread and butter of part of the life cycle of…
- ▶ 3:50 Benedict Evans Because it doesn't change out of recognition every five years, but in the tech industry, this relatively small acquisition of a relatively small company in what looks like a peripheral space might give you dominance in the whole new thing,… 4 times in the scene
- ▶ 8:39 Benedict Evans Um, and yet, Facebook, Meta, think this is the next smartphone and the next competitive landscape.
- ▶ 15:02 Toni Cowan-Brown Versus the Meta deal in that you've got Sony that is massively objecting the Activision deal here from Microsoft. 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 20:43 Benedict Evans Whereas, whereas within, obviously, you can construct that argument, you know, like, if VR becomes a thing, and fitness is a thing, and meta owns the fitness part of it, well then that would be, that's a conversation.
- ▶ 22:30 Benedict Evans Um, I mean, part of the, um, which is not part of the narrative, sort of part of the conversation, which is not, doesn't apply to Within or Activision, is, um, so last year the FTC, um, did a study where they got Google, Apple, Facebook,… 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 27:06 Benedict Evans Facebook is basically it's Instagram and WhatsApp.
- ▶ 32:19 Benedict Evans I mean, there's other things, but like, it's too late to make a new thing that looks like Facebook now.
All the other things happening in tech part 1.
- ▶ 22:27 Benedict Evans It's like, um, Alphabet, Meta, ByteDance, um, and then I think Amazon, or maybe one other, I haven't got the chart in front of me, this will be published next week in my presentation.
How many metaverses?
- ▶ 2:30 Benedict Evans And, um, it's the next platform, and we are sort of, on that view, we are sort of where mobile was in sort of 2002 or 2003, and this is why Facebook renamed themselves Meta, because Mark and a bunch of other people there think that this is… 2 times in the scene
- ▶ 12:29 Benedict Evans And there's, but there's a sort of a more generally like, um, and the same thing with all these, these sort of, so as I look at sort of Facebook's concept videos, I see two things.
- ▶ 25:08 Benedict Evans It's not just Google, Apple, Facebook, it's Google, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, um, Salesforce, um, Shopify, Okta, Spotify, um, pick 20 or 30 other companies.
- ▶ 29:02 Benedict Evans I mean, there's a funny, I mean, this is, this is the, um, go, kind of, go, go, go, we'll go all kind of economical, but like, this is why Meta has such an enormous budget for building, for spending on this stuff, because when Apple and… 5 times in the scene
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