Jan 2, 2019 · 17m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Innovation and Regulation -- What Happens When Policy Lags Behind Technology?

Greg Walden · 5m spoken Fred Upton · 5m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 3m spoken Michael Copeland · 1m spoken
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In this episode of the a16z Podcast, U.S. Representatives Fred Upton and Greg Walden discuss the growing divide between rapid technological innovation and lagging government regulation, emphasizing market-driven solutions, regulatory reform, and legislative initiatives like the 21st Century Cures Act.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 19.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 1.7 The host pushing back 2.2
05100:0010:001:38–4:22 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Telecommunications Act History and Spectrum Auctions Sonal prompts the guests with a trivia stat about the 1996 Telecom Act only mentioning the internet six times. Greg Walden gently corrects the historical context, clarifying that the foundation was actually the 1934 Communications Act amended in 1996. The guests then explain the history of spectrum auctions and digital broadcasting transitions.4:22–7:23 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Balancing Policy Lag with Rapid Tech Innovation Sonal asks how lawmakers stay ahead of rapid technological change. The guests explain their deregulation philosophy and forcefully critique the FCC's attempt to regulate the internet under legacy Title II telephone rules.7:23–10:38 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Municipal Fiber and Rural Broadband Connectivity Sonal raises Google Fiber's municipal strategy, and Greg Walden provides nuance by balancing free-market competition with the necessity of Universal Service Funds for rural broadband. Walden then explains how regulatory ambiguity surrounding FDA medical device definitions creates uncertainty for tech creators.10:38–13:19 · The host as informed peer 6/10 Software Regulation, Market Forces, and Consumer Accountability Sonal pushes back on Walden's clear distinction between life-critical hardware and simple consumer wearables, arguing that digital therapeutics blur these lines. Walden defends his perspective by emphasizing market discipline, fraud laws, and public consumer reviews as natural regulators.13:19–16:00 · The host as informed peer 5/10 The 21st Century Cures Act and Biomedical Innovation Upton details the bipartisan effort behind the 21st Century Cures Act. Sonal interjects productively to highlight the economic competition aspect regarding venture capital flight to overseas drug trials, which Upton affirms.16:00–17:05 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Senate Action Urgency and Conclusion Michael Copeland asks about the urgency of Senate approval, and Upton explains how delay impacts NIH funding allocation timelines before wrapping up the interview.1:38–4:22 · Guest teaching 5/10 Telecommunications Act History and Spectrum Auctions Sonal prompts the guests with a trivia stat about the 1996 Telecom Act only mentioning the internet six times. Greg Walden gently corrects the historical context, clarifying that the foundation was actually the 1934 Communications Act amended in 1996. The guests then explain the history of spectrum auctions and digital broadcasting transitions.4:22–7:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 Balancing Policy Lag with Rapid Tech Innovation Sonal asks how lawmakers stay ahead of rapid technological change. The guests explain their deregulation philosophy and forcefully critique the FCC's attempt to regulate the internet under legacy Title II telephone rules.7:23–10:38 · Guest teaching 4/10 Municipal Fiber and Rural Broadband Connectivity Sonal raises Google Fiber's municipal strategy, and Greg Walden provides nuance by balancing free-market competition with the necessity of Universal Service Funds for rural broadband. Walden then explains how regulatory ambiguity surrounding FDA medical device definitions creates uncertainty for tech creators.10:38–13:19 · Guest teaching 3/10 Software Regulation, Market Forces, and Consumer Accountability Sonal pushes back on Walden's clear distinction between life-critical hardware and simple consumer wearables, arguing that digital therapeutics blur these lines. Walden defends his perspective by emphasizing market discipline, fraud laws, and public consumer reviews as natural regulators.13:19–16:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 The 21st Century Cures Act and Biomedical Innovation Upton details the bipartisan effort behind the 21st Century Cures Act. Sonal interjects productively to highlight the economic competition aspect regarding venture capital flight to overseas drug trials, which Upton affirms.16:00–17:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Senate Action Urgency and Conclusion Michael Copeland asks about the urgency of Senate approval, and Upton explains how delay impacts NIH funding allocation timelines before wrapping up the interview.1:38–4:22 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Telecommunications Act History and Spectrum Auctions Sonal prompts the guests with a trivia stat about the 1996 Telecom Act only mentioning the internet six times. Greg Walden gently corrects the historical context, clarifying that the foundation was actually the 1934 Communications Act amended in 1996. The guests then explain the history of spectrum auctions and digital broadcasting transitions.4:22–7:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Balancing Policy Lag with Rapid Tech Innovation Sonal asks how lawmakers stay ahead of rapid technological change. The guests explain their deregulation philosophy and forcefully critique the FCC's attempt to regulate the internet under legacy Title II telephone rules.7:23–10:38 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Municipal Fiber and Rural Broadband Connectivity Sonal raises Google Fiber's municipal strategy, and Greg Walden provides nuance by balancing free-market competition with the necessity of Universal Service Funds for rural broadband. Walden then explains how regulatory ambiguity surrounding FDA medical device definitions creates uncertainty for tech creators.10:38–13:19 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Software Regulation, Market Forces, and Consumer Accountability Sonal pushes back on Walden's clear distinction between life-critical hardware and simple consumer wearables, arguing that digital therapeutics blur these lines. Walden defends his perspective by emphasizing market discipline, fraud laws, and public consumer reviews as natural regulators.13:19–16:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The 21st Century Cures Act and Biomedical Innovation Upton details the bipartisan effort behind the 21st Century Cures Act. Sonal interjects productively to highlight the economic competition aspect regarding venture capital flight to overseas drug trials, which Upton affirms.16:00–17:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Senate Action Urgency and Conclusion Michael Copeland asks about the urgency of Senate approval, and Upton explains how delay impacts NIH funding allocation timelines before wrapping up the interview.1:38–4:22 · The host pushing back 1/10 Telecommunications Act History and Spectrum Auctions Sonal prompts the guests with a trivia stat about the 1996 Telecom Act only mentioning the internet six times. Greg Walden gently corrects the historical context, clarifying that the foundation was actually the 1934 Communications Act amended in 1996. The guests then explain the history of spectrum auctions and digital broadcasting transitions.4:22–7:23 · The host pushing back 2/10 Balancing Policy Lag with Rapid Tech Innovation Sonal asks how lawmakers stay ahead of rapid technological change. The guests explain their deregulation philosophy and forcefully critique the FCC's attempt to regulate the internet under legacy Title II telephone rules.7:23–10:38 · The host pushing back 2/10 Municipal Fiber and Rural Broadband Connectivity Sonal raises Google Fiber's municipal strategy, and Greg Walden provides nuance by balancing free-market competition with the necessity of Universal Service Funds for rural broadband. Walden then explains how regulatory ambiguity surrounding FDA medical device definitions creates uncertainty for tech creators.10:38–13:19 · The host pushing back 5/10 Software Regulation, Market Forces, and Consumer Accountability Sonal pushes back on Walden's clear distinction between life-critical hardware and simple consumer wearables, arguing that digital therapeutics blur these lines. Walden defends his perspective by emphasizing market discipline, fraud laws, and public consumer reviews as natural regulators.13:19–16:00 · The host pushing back 3/10 The 21st Century Cures Act and Biomedical Innovation Upton details the bipartisan effort behind the 21st Century Cures Act. Sonal interjects productively to highlight the economic competition aspect regarding venture capital flight to overseas drug trials, which Upton affirms.16:00–17:05 · The host pushing back 0/10 Senate Action Urgency and Conclusion Michael Copeland asks about the urgency of Senate approval, and Upton explains how delay impacts NIH funding allocation timelines before wrapping up the interview.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 17.3% · guest 82.7%0:00 · the host 17.3% · guest 82.7%3:00 · the host 14.2% · guest 85.8%3:00 · the host 14.2% · guest 85.8%6:00 · the host 8.5% · guest 91.5%6:00 · the host 8.5% · guest 91.5%9:00 · the host 35.8% · guest 64.2%9:00 · the host 35.8% · guest 64.2%12:00 · the host 34.8% · guest 65.2%12:00 · the host 34.8% · guest 65.2%15:00 · the host 3.1% · guest 96.9%15:00 · the host 3.1% · guest 96.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 6:03 Walden attacks FCC Title II classification

Greg Walden strongly criticizes the FCC for trying to treat IP addresses like legacy telephone numbers under Title II, calling the regulatory direction detrimental to innovation.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 11:27 Sonal reframes software regulation and digital therapeutics

Sonal explicitly challenges Walden's distinction between hardware and software regulation, arguing that non-obvious digital therapeutics can impact health behavior and shouldn't be treated like pacemakers.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:54 Walden corrects historical origin of Telecom Act

Greg Walden re-educates the host on statutory history after Sonal cites a statistic about the 1996 Act, noting that the governing framework originates from 1934.

The host holds their own ▶ 11:27 Sonal demonstrates software-domain expertise

Sonal counters the guest's simplistic regulatory line by articulating how software eating the world introduces digital therapeutics that challenge standard medical device definitions.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Telecommunications Act History and Spectrum Auctions 4511 Sonal prompts the guests with a trivia stat about the 1996 Telecom Act only mentioning the internet six times. Greg Walden gently corrects the historical context, clarifying that the foundation was actually the 1934 Communications Act amended in 1996. The guests then explain the history of spectrum auctions and digital broadcasting transitions.
Balancing Policy Lag with Rapid Tech Innovation 3322 Sonal asks how lawmakers stay ahead of rapid technological change. The guests explain their deregulation philosophy and forcefully critique the FCC's attempt to regulate the internet under legacy Title II telephone rules.
Municipal Fiber and Rural Broadband Connectivity 4422 Sonal raises Google Fiber's municipal strategy, and Greg Walden provides nuance by balancing free-market competition with the necessity of Universal Service Funds for rural broadband. Walden then explains how regulatory ambiguity surrounding FDA medical device definitions creates uncertainty for tech creators.
Software Regulation, Market Forces, and Consumer Accountability 6335 Sonal pushes back on Walden's clear distinction between life-critical hardware and simple consumer wearables, arguing that digital therapeutics blur these lines. Walden defends his perspective by emphasizing market discipline, fraud laws, and public consumer reviews as natural regulators.
The 21st Century Cures Act and Biomedical Innovation 5313 Upton details the bipartisan effort behind the 21st Century Cures Act. Sonal interjects productively to highlight the economic competition aspect regarding venture capital flight to overseas drug trials, which Upton affirms.
Senate Action Urgency and Conclusion 2210 Michael Copeland asks about the urgency of Senate approval, and Upton explains how delay impacts NIH funding allocation timelines before wrapping up the interview.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Partly supported
Walden: AWS-3 spectrum auction defied skeptics, raising $41.9 billion
“We were able to get cleared in what's called AWS three and that spectrum the green eye shade folks in Washington said would never sell government, never clear, and there's no revenue potential. It sold this year for 41.9 billion dollars.”
Greg Walden Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Upton: Tens of Thousands of Tech Jobs Created Without Regulatory Burdens
“Look at the tens of thousands of jobs that have been created, the technological skills the manufacturing jobs. That have all happened without, you know, without the burden of regulation”
Fred Upton Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:35
What-if
Walden: Legacy Taxi and Hotel Regulations Would Have Stifled Airbnb and Uber
“If they had to live by all the laws of, like they were a hotel, I mean, that doesn't make any sense, or Lyft, or Uber. Having to, you know, be under the regulatory confines of the old taxi laws. We would never have this competition innovation coming to consume…”
Greg Walden Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:03
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Walden: Treating Internet Like Phone Monopolies Will Harm Innovation
“Now you're going to get all the constraints of the old phone monopoly regulatory environment of Washington on top of the internet. Really? I don't think that's going to help on innovation.”
Greg Walden Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:49
Insight
Walden: Founders must periodically scan for regulatory threats to their business
“Every once in a while you gotta pop your head up out of your company, and I was in small business for 21 years, the radio business, and so, you know, you're working every day, you're trying to keep the microphones wired and the transmitter running and sell adv…”
Greg Walden Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 8:57
Assertion Supported
Walden: House subcommittee forced FDA to clarify if iPad is medical device
“We actually did a hearing on my subcommittee to force the FDA, the regulator in this case, to tell us, is an iPad a medical device?”
Greg Walden Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 9:12
Opinion
Walden: Regulatory policy must distinguish life-critical devices from consumer fitness trackers
“Well, I think part of it is, if that device is regulating the beat of my heart, yeah, I want a little more regulation there. But if it's Fred Upton's Fitbit or Jawbone or whatever your fuel. That's not controlling the flow of his insulin or regulating the beat…”
Greg Walden Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 11:04
Opinion
Walden: Internet consumer pushback serves as ultimate check on bad business behavior
“So I think there's the ultimate consumer pushback with the internet community that, that helps govern bad behavior.”
Greg Walden Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 12:50
Assertion Contradicted
Upton: VC biomedical investment overseas exceeded US by 50%
“Worked with a venture capitalist to make sure, you know, last five or six years, by a 50% margin, they've invested overseas instead of here.”
Fred Upton Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 14:45
Assertion Supported
Upton: Every new drug relies on NIH research
“There's not a new drug out there that didn't have NIH research.”
Fred Upton Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 15:13
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