Jan 2, 2019 · 31m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Compensation Isn’t About Paying the Most, It’s About Being Consistent

Tan Nguyen · 13m spoken Shannon Schiltz · 11m spoken Michael Copeland · 5m spoken
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In this episode of the a16z Podcast, host Michael Copeland and compensation experts Shannon Schultz and Tan Nguyen discuss strategic compensation frameworks for scaling startups. They emphasize the importance of establishing a clear compensation philosophy, balancing cash and equity structures, and maintaining pay consistency to retain top talent through market cycles.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 2.7 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 1.3 The host pushing back 1.3
05100:0010:0020:0030:001:58–6:37 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Short-Term Hiring vs. Long-Term Compensation Strategy The host asks open-ended introductory questions about early-stage startup hiring mistakes. Shannon and Tan reframe the host's premise, clarifying that compensation is less about doing things wrong or paying equally, and more about long-term strategy and consistency.6:37–12:45 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Defining a Compensation Philosophy and Market Positioning The host prompts the guests on defining compensation philosophies and lists simple examples. Tan and Shannon detail market positioning data and correct common confusion between compensation philosophy and process.12:45–16:57 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Pay Transparency, Consistency, and Retention The host suggests that company mission or noble work can compensate for lower pay. Tan gently shuts this down by stating compensation is strictly compensation, while Shannon explains that pay consistency and peer fairness drive retention.16:57–23:03 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Equity Compensation Strategies and Long-Term Value The host inquires how founders should pitch equity to prospective hires when most grants yield little payout. Tan criticizes current market trends where long-term equity is incorrectly treated as short-term incentives.23:03–28:52 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Comparing RSUs and Stock Options in Growth Companies The host asks basic clarifying questions regarding RSUs versus stock options. Tan educates the host on the financial, tax, and liquidity implications of RSUs given modern 7-10 year private company exit horizons.28:52–31:49 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Navigating Market Cycles and Building a Compensation Roadmap The host synthesizes the main takeaways around consistency and long-term planning across changing market cycles. Shannon reinforces this synthesis using a product roadmap analogy.1:58–6:37 · Guest teaching 4/10 Short-Term Hiring vs. Long-Term Compensation Strategy The host asks open-ended introductory questions about early-stage startup hiring mistakes. Shannon and Tan reframe the host's premise, clarifying that compensation is less about doing things wrong or paying equally, and more about long-term strategy and consistency.6:37–12:45 · Guest teaching 4/10 Defining a Compensation Philosophy and Market Positioning The host prompts the guests on defining compensation philosophies and lists simple examples. Tan and Shannon detail market positioning data and correct common confusion between compensation philosophy and process.12:45–16:57 · Guest teaching 4/10 Pay Transparency, Consistency, and Retention The host suggests that company mission or noble work can compensate for lower pay. Tan gently shuts this down by stating compensation is strictly compensation, while Shannon explains that pay consistency and peer fairness drive retention.16:57–23:03 · Guest teaching 4/10 Equity Compensation Strategies and Long-Term Value The host inquires how founders should pitch equity to prospective hires when most grants yield little payout. Tan criticizes current market trends where long-term equity is incorrectly treated as short-term incentives.23:03–28:52 · Guest teaching 5/10 Comparing RSUs and Stock Options in Growth Companies The host asks basic clarifying questions regarding RSUs versus stock options. Tan educates the host on the financial, tax, and liquidity implications of RSUs given modern 7-10 year private company exit horizons.28:52–31:49 · Guest teaching 3/10 Navigating Market Cycles and Building a Compensation Roadmap The host synthesizes the main takeaways around consistency and long-term planning across changing market cycles. Shannon reinforces this synthesis using a product roadmap analogy.1:58–6:37 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Short-Term Hiring vs. Long-Term Compensation Strategy The host asks open-ended introductory questions about early-stage startup hiring mistakes. Shannon and Tan reframe the host's premise, clarifying that compensation is less about doing things wrong or paying equally, and more about long-term strategy and consistency.6:37–12:45 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Defining a Compensation Philosophy and Market Positioning The host prompts the guests on defining compensation philosophies and lists simple examples. Tan and Shannon detail market positioning data and correct common confusion between compensation philosophy and process.12:45–16:57 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Pay Transparency, Consistency, and Retention The host suggests that company mission or noble work can compensate for lower pay. Tan gently shuts this down by stating compensation is strictly compensation, while Shannon explains that pay consistency and peer fairness drive retention.16:57–23:03 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Equity Compensation Strategies and Long-Term Value The host inquires how founders should pitch equity to prospective hires when most grants yield little payout. Tan criticizes current market trends where long-term equity is incorrectly treated as short-term incentives.23:03–28:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Comparing RSUs and Stock Options in Growth Companies The host asks basic clarifying questions regarding RSUs versus stock options. Tan educates the host on the financial, tax, and liquidity implications of RSUs given modern 7-10 year private company exit horizons.28:52–31:49 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Navigating Market Cycles and Building a Compensation Roadmap The host synthesizes the main takeaways around consistency and long-term planning across changing market cycles. Shannon reinforces this synthesis using a product roadmap analogy.1:58–6:37 · The host pushing back 2/10 Short-Term Hiring vs. Long-Term Compensation Strategy The host asks open-ended introductory questions about early-stage startup hiring mistakes. Shannon and Tan reframe the host's premise, clarifying that compensation is less about doing things wrong or paying equally, and more about long-term strategy and consistency.6:37–12:45 · The host pushing back 1/10 Defining a Compensation Philosophy and Market Positioning The host prompts the guests on defining compensation philosophies and lists simple examples. Tan and Shannon detail market positioning data and correct common confusion between compensation philosophy and process.12:45–16:57 · The host pushing back 2/10 Pay Transparency, Consistency, and Retention The host suggests that company mission or noble work can compensate for lower pay. Tan gently shuts this down by stating compensation is strictly compensation, while Shannon explains that pay consistency and peer fairness drive retention.16:57–23:03 · The host pushing back 1/10 Equity Compensation Strategies and Long-Term Value The host inquires how founders should pitch equity to prospective hires when most grants yield little payout. Tan criticizes current market trends where long-term equity is incorrectly treated as short-term incentives.23:03–28:52 · The host pushing back 1/10 Comparing RSUs and Stock Options in Growth Companies The host asks basic clarifying questions regarding RSUs versus stock options. Tan educates the host on the financial, tax, and liquidity implications of RSUs given modern 7-10 year private company exit horizons.28:52–31:49 · The host pushing back 1/10 Navigating Market Cycles and Building a Compensation Roadmap The host synthesizes the main takeaways around consistency and long-term planning across changing market cycles. Shannon reinforces this synthesis using a product roadmap analogy.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%30:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%30:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:19 Tan rejects host premise regarding non-monetary value

When the host suggests company mission and societal impact can offset pay, Tan directly counters that compensation is compensation and someone else will always pay more cash.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 14:01 Host pushes back on top-market pay necessity

The host challenges the reliance on raw compensation numbers by asking whether non-monetary factors like working on important problems reduce the need for top-quartile pay.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 26:30 Tan explains structural problems with startup RSUs

Tan educates the host on how forcing present-value RSUs onto private companies with 7 to 10 year IPO horizons creates severe tax and liquidity issues for employees.

The host holds their own ▶ 30:33 Host synthesizes core principles accurately

The host demonstrates full grasp of the conversation by accurately summarizing the key principles of market data positioning, consistency, and long-term execution horizon.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Short-Term Hiring vs. Long-Term Compensation Strategy 2412 The host asks open-ended introductory questions about early-stage startup hiring mistakes. Shannon and Tan reframe the host's premise, clarifying that compensation is less about doing things wrong or paying equally, and more about long-term strategy and consistency.
Defining a Compensation Philosophy and Market Positioning 2411 The host prompts the guests on defining compensation philosophies and lists simple examples. Tan and Shannon detail market positioning data and correct common confusion between compensation philosophy and process.
Pay Transparency, Consistency, and Retention 3422 The host suggests that company mission or noble work can compensate for lower pay. Tan gently shuts this down by stating compensation is strictly compensation, while Shannon explains that pay consistency and peer fairness drive retention.
Equity Compensation Strategies and Long-Term Value 3421 The host inquires how founders should pitch equity to prospective hires when most grants yield little payout. Tan criticizes current market trends where long-term equity is incorrectly treated as short-term incentives.
Comparing RSUs and Stock Options in Growth Companies 2511 The host asks basic clarifying questions regarding RSUs versus stock options. Tan educates the host on the financial, tax, and liquidity implications of RSUs given modern 7-10 year private company exit horizons.
Navigating Market Cycles and Building a Compensation Roadmap 4311 The host synthesizes the main takeaways around consistency and long-term planning across changing market cycles. Shannon reinforces this synthesis using a product roadmap analogy.

Statements from this episode (9)

Insight
Schultz: Building a company requires a talent roadmap like a product roadmap
“You don't build a product without having a product roadmap, right? And so if you're going to build a company, you've got to have a, like, a roadmap on how you're going to attract the best talent and how you're going to retain the best talent.”
Shannon Schiltz Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 0:21
Insight
Nguyen: High-velocity hiring leads founders to ignore long-term compensation strategy
“When you're at this kind of high-velocity hiring rate I think people forget about what's my strategy and what direction am I pointing at, because they're solving for very short-term needs of that recruitment, initial recruitment process, and that candidate say…”
Tan Nguyen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 0:50
Insight
Schultz: Startup compensation should prioritize consistency over equality
“It's not about being equal. It's about being consistent.”
Shannon Schiltz Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:03
Insight
Schultz: Defined compensation philosophy is a key recruiting selling point
“If you put in place a philosophy, you can actually speak to rewarding your top performers. And that's something that's a huge selling point in the recruiting process now.”
Shannon Schiltz Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 10:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schultz: Attrition data shows employees rarely leave companies solely over compensation
“But if you also look at attrition data, people don't leave a company because of comp. People leave a company for many other reasons. They'll use the, they're gonna make more at their next company, but it is usually, there's a different, if you actually scratch…”
Shannon Schiltz Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 14:33
Insight
Schultz: Equity packages across different startup stages cannot be directly compared
“You usually can't compare equity packages. Like you can't look across five different offers and say they're all the same offer compared to the amount of equity you're getting. If it's at a different stage, you might get a lower equity package, but it's high, y…”
Shannon Schiltz Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 17:34
Opinion
Nguyen: Founders over-focus on four-year equity grants instead of long-term retention
“So many times we're not, or entrepreneurs are not thinking about strategizing and building plans that allow them to lock in that employee six years down the road. They're just trying to say, I, I'm solving for that mega grant, that four year new hire grant.”
Tan Nguyen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 21:48
Insight
Nguyen: Seven-to-ten year IPO timelines create severe tax issues for RSU holders
“Look, it's sometimes a seven to 10 year run before you're looking at an IPO, and now you're forcing kind of a present value equity form that has tax implications on employees and it's, you know, you're not seeing the exit event as”
Tan Nguyen Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 26:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schultz: Candidates stopped negotiating for options after 2000 tech crash
“So if you look back in, you know, early 2000, like nobody was really thinking, nobody was negotiating options for a while. No, it was like, I need to be paid cash. I don't really care about options.”
Shannon Schiltz Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 29:46
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