Jan 2, 2019 · 22m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Holy Non Sequiturs, Batman: What Disruption Theory Is ... and Isn't

Sukhinder Singh Cassidy · 13m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 3m spoken John China · 3m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this podcast episode, host Sonal Chokshi speaks with serial entrepreneur Sukhinder Singh Cassidy and SVB executive John China about driving diversity on startup boards. They discuss insights from female tech founders and explain how 'The Board List' connects qualified female leaders with high-impact corporate board seats.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 18% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 0.4 The host pushing back 2.4
05100:0010:0020:002:32–5:06 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Surveying Female Founders on Entrepreneurship Sonal demonstrates familiarity with Sukhinder's survey on female entrepreneurs, asking targeted questions about the findings. Sukhinder educates the room with specific data regarding entrepreneurial family backgrounds and high recommendation rates among female founders. The tone remains collaborative and supportive throughout.5:06–10:27 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Introducing The Board List Marketplace Sonal challenges the potential elitism of the initiative, asking if BoardList is merely an exclusive club for already privileged entrepreneurs. Sukhinder reframes the question, clarifying that it functions as a curated marketplace rather than a closed ranking list. Sonal's pushback prompts a clear definition of the initiative's structure.10:27–14:36 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Leveraging Open Networks for Board Diversity The conversation covers combining male and female networks to unlock independent board seats. Sonal follows along and synthesizes key points regarding supply and demand dynamics in startup boards. The guests share statistical insights on private board composition, maintaining a highly agreeable exchange.14:36–20:31 · The host as informed peer 5/10 The Importance and Risk Management of Independent Directors Sonal brings up a significant founder concern: whether selecting independent board members outside personal networks creates wildcard risk. Sukhinder counters by explaining board term lengths and arguing that executive hiring carries far higher risk than board appointments. Sonal concedes the point after the thorough explanation.20:31–22:29 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Getting Involved and Future Vision Sonal asks standard wrap-up questions regarding how listeners can participate and whether BoardList will expand to underrepresented minorities. Sukhinder outlines the current focus on tech board seats while keeping future expansion open. The exchange is purely informational and closing in tone.2:32–5:06 · Guest teaching 4/10 Surveying Female Founders on Entrepreneurship Sonal demonstrates familiarity with Sukhinder's survey on female entrepreneurs, asking targeted questions about the findings. Sukhinder educates the room with specific data regarding entrepreneurial family backgrounds and high recommendation rates among female founders. The tone remains collaborative and supportive throughout.5:06–10:27 · Guest teaching 5/10 Introducing The Board List Marketplace Sonal challenges the potential elitism of the initiative, asking if BoardList is merely an exclusive club for already privileged entrepreneurs. Sukhinder reframes the question, clarifying that it functions as a curated marketplace rather than a closed ranking list. Sonal's pushback prompts a clear definition of the initiative's structure.10:27–14:36 · Guest teaching 4/10 Leveraging Open Networks for Board Diversity The conversation covers combining male and female networks to unlock independent board seats. Sonal follows along and synthesizes key points regarding supply and demand dynamics in startup boards. The guests share statistical insights on private board composition, maintaining a highly agreeable exchange.14:36–20:31 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Importance and Risk Management of Independent Directors Sonal brings up a significant founder concern: whether selecting independent board members outside personal networks creates wildcard risk. Sukhinder counters by explaining board term lengths and arguing that executive hiring carries far higher risk than board appointments. Sonal concedes the point after the thorough explanation.20:31–22:29 · Guest teaching 2/10 Getting Involved and Future Vision Sonal asks standard wrap-up questions regarding how listeners can participate and whether BoardList will expand to underrepresented minorities. Sukhinder outlines the current focus on tech board seats while keeping future expansion open. The exchange is purely informational and closing in tone.2:32–5:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Surveying Female Founders on Entrepreneurship Sonal demonstrates familiarity with Sukhinder's survey on female entrepreneurs, asking targeted questions about the findings. Sukhinder educates the room with specific data regarding entrepreneurial family backgrounds and high recommendation rates among female founders. The tone remains collaborative and supportive throughout.5:06–10:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing The Board List Marketplace Sonal challenges the potential elitism of the initiative, asking if BoardList is merely an exclusive club for already privileged entrepreneurs. Sukhinder reframes the question, clarifying that it functions as a curated marketplace rather than a closed ranking list. Sonal's pushback prompts a clear definition of the initiative's structure.10:27–14:36 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Leveraging Open Networks for Board Diversity The conversation covers combining male and female networks to unlock independent board seats. Sonal follows along and synthesizes key points regarding supply and demand dynamics in startup boards. The guests share statistical insights on private board composition, maintaining a highly agreeable exchange.14:36–20:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Importance and Risk Management of Independent Directors Sonal brings up a significant founder concern: whether selecting independent board members outside personal networks creates wildcard risk. Sukhinder counters by explaining board term lengths and arguing that executive hiring carries far higher risk than board appointments. Sonal concedes the point after the thorough explanation.20:31–22:29 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Getting Involved and Future Vision Sonal asks standard wrap-up questions regarding how listeners can participate and whether BoardList will expand to underrepresented minorities. Sukhinder outlines the current focus on tech board seats while keeping future expansion open. The exchange is purely informational and closing in tone.2:32–5:06 · The host pushing back 0/10 Surveying Female Founders on Entrepreneurship Sonal demonstrates familiarity with Sukhinder's survey on female entrepreneurs, asking targeted questions about the findings. Sukhinder educates the room with specific data regarding entrepreneurial family backgrounds and high recommendation rates among female founders. The tone remains collaborative and supportive throughout.5:06–10:27 · The host pushing back 5/10 Introducing The Board List Marketplace Sonal challenges the potential elitism of the initiative, asking if BoardList is merely an exclusive club for already privileged entrepreneurs. Sukhinder reframes the question, clarifying that it functions as a curated marketplace rather than a closed ranking list. Sonal's pushback prompts a clear definition of the initiative's structure.10:27–14:36 · The host pushing back 1/10 Leveraging Open Networks for Board Diversity The conversation covers combining male and female networks to unlock independent board seats. Sonal follows along and synthesizes key points regarding supply and demand dynamics in startup boards. The guests share statistical insights on private board composition, maintaining a highly agreeable exchange.14:36–20:31 · The host pushing back 6/10 The Importance and Risk Management of Independent Directors Sonal brings up a significant founder concern: whether selecting independent board members outside personal networks creates wildcard risk. Sukhinder counters by explaining board term lengths and arguing that executive hiring carries far higher risk than board appointments. Sonal concedes the point after the thorough explanation.20:31–22:29 · The host pushing back 0/10 Getting Involved and Future Vision Sonal asks standard wrap-up questions regarding how listeners can participate and whether BoardList will expand to underrepresented minorities. Sukhinder outlines the current focus on tech board seats while keeping future expansion open. The exchange is purely informational and closing in tone.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 26.6% · guest 73.4%0:00 · the host 26.6% · guest 73.4%3:00 · the host 18.7% · guest 81.3%3:00 · the host 18.7% · guest 81.3%6:00 · the host 23.3% · guest 76.7%6:00 · the host 23.3% · guest 76.7%9:00 · the host 18.1% · guest 81.9%9:00 · the host 18.1% · guest 81.9%12:00 · the host 16.4% · guest 83.6%12:00 · the host 16.4% · guest 83.6%15:00 · the host 4.7% · guest 95.3%15:00 · the host 4.7% · guest 95.3%18:00 · the host 21.9% · guest 78.1%18:00 · the host 21.9% · guest 78.1%21:00 · the host 11.4% · guest 88.6%21:00 · the host 11.4% · guest 88.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:04 Reframing independent director risk versus executive hiring

Sukhinder forcefully reframes Sonal's premise about board risk, arguing that executive hiring carries vastly higher risk than appointing non-network board members.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 17:58 Challenging the wildcard risk of non-network board members

Sonal directly challenges the enthusiasm around open networks by pointing out that taking on board members outside a founder's personal network introduces a major wildcard risk.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:20 Explaining board term lengths and low-risk dynamics

Sukhinder educates Sonal on private startup board governance, explaining how short term lengths make board seats low risk, ultimately convincing Sonal.

The host holds their own ▶ 6:18 Questioning BoardList exclusivity and privilege

Sonal demonstrates strong industry awareness by confronting the guests on whether surveying privileged founders creates an overly exclusive insider list.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Surveying Female Founders on Entrepreneurship 3400 Sonal demonstrates familiarity with Sukhinder's survey on female entrepreneurs, asking targeted questions about the findings. Sukhinder educates the room with specific data regarding entrepreneurial family backgrounds and high recommendation rates among female founders. The tone remains collaborative and supportive throughout.
Introducing The Board List Marketplace 4515 Sonal challenges the potential elitism of the initiative, asking if BoardList is merely an exclusive club for already privileged entrepreneurs. Sukhinder reframes the question, clarifying that it functions as a curated marketplace rather than a closed ranking list. Sonal's pushback prompts a clear definition of the initiative's structure.
Leveraging Open Networks for Board Diversity 3401 The conversation covers combining male and female networks to unlock independent board seats. Sonal follows along and synthesizes key points regarding supply and demand dynamics in startup boards. The guests share statistical insights on private board composition, maintaining a highly agreeable exchange.
The Importance and Risk Management of Independent Directors 5516 Sonal brings up a significant founder concern: whether selecting independent board members outside personal networks creates wildcard risk. Sukhinder counters by explaining board term lengths and arguing that executive hiring carries far higher risk than board appointments. Sonal concedes the point after the thorough explanation.
Getting Involved and Future Vision 2200 Sonal asks standard wrap-up questions regarding how listeners can participate and whether BoardList will expand to underrepresented minorities. Sukhinder outlines the current focus on tech board seats while keeping future expansion open. The exchange is purely informational and closing in tone.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Supported
Cassidy: 55% of Female Tech Founders Come From Entrepreneurial Families
“Their family of origin, all at 55% came from entrepreneurs, entrepreneurial families.”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:45
Assertion Partly supported
Cassidy: 88% of Female Tech Founders Recommend Entrepreneurship
“Overall, 88% of the women surveyed said they would wholeheartedly recommend entrepreneurship.”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 4:42
Opinion
Cassidy: Gender Is a Very Small Signal in Startup Success
“And the role that gender plays is quite frankly a very, very, very small signal. You know, a lot of different things it takes to be successful.”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:00
Insight
Cassidy: Diversity Initiatives Fail When Restricted to Women-Only Networks
“I think one of the biggest problems, I said this at TechCrunch Disrupt a couple weeks ago, people ask me, like, what is the problem with all of these efforts? I'm like, the problem is it's women for women, okay? I mean, it should be men and women for great tal…”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 11:38
Assertion Supported
Cassidy: Only 25% of Surveyed VC Startup Boards Have Female Directors
“I think by our measure, at most, 22 to 25% of boards in the venture capitalists who are part or partners with us on the board list, about 25 gave us their data. And we also got data from one of our other sponsors, Wilson Sensini. Only about 25% of boards have …”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 13:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
China: Most Startup Founders Leave Independent Board Seats Unfilled
“In fact, what I think happens, most startup entrepreneurs don't focus on that seat, so it goes unfilled.”
John China Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 15:14
Insight
Cassidy: Startup Boards Are Usually Too Late to Spot Internal Issues
“The one challenge of boards, and this is true, and this is one of the challenges performance wise, is boards are often too late to understand what's going on in a company, right?”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 16:50
Insight
Cassidy: Startups Should Use One-Year Terms for Independent Board Directors
“In private companies, board seats are relatively low risk, high opportunity. If you are not so sure about someone, you set a board term. Like, in a startup, for somebody to give you a year of their time, by the way, that's plenty. You don't need to put somebod…”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 18:28
Insight
Cassidy: Tech Must Solve Board Diversity Before Advising Other Sectors
“So I don't think we can talk about what others should be doing if we don't solve it in our own industry, quite frankly.”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 22:14
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