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Jan 2, 2019 · 11m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Harnessing the DevOps Movement -- Don’t Go Chasing Waterfalls

Steven Sinofsky · 4m spoken Kartik Rao · 3m spoken Alex Solomon · 2m spoken Michael Copeland · 52s spoken
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In this a16z podcast episode, tech leaders Steven Sinofsky, Kartik Rao, and Alex Solomon discuss the transition from traditional waterfall IT practices to modern DevOps and application operations. They examine how continuous software delivery, rapid reversibility, modular cloud services, and real-time telemetry enable enterprise teams to ship software quickly while maintaining high availability.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 3.8 Guest disagreement 2.3 The host pushing back 4.5
05100:0010:001:01–3:08 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Moving Away from Waterfall to Reversibility and Speed Steven framing the transition from traditional waterfall IT to continuous release cycles in the cloud. Kartik educates the discussion by citing a Facebook engineering concept around reversibility over complexity management.3:08–5:56 · The host as informed peer 6/10 Iterative Development, MVPs, and the SaaS Ecosystem Steven demonstrates deep domain knowledge by challenging the consumer MVP mindset, pointing out fixed enterprise requirements like cash-to-quote and expense report processes. Kartik responds by highlighting how web services and modular architectures help overcome these fixed requirements.5:56–8:55 · The host as informed peer 6/10 Operational SLA Pressures and Third-Party Dependencies Steven presses the guests on real-world support operational challenges and interrupts Kartik to question whether end users care if an outage is a third-party vendor's fault. Kartik explains how instrumentation allows teams to hold third-party vendors accountable.8:55–11:50 · The host as informed peer 5/10 The Illusion of On-Prem Control and Hybrid Cloud Realities Alex dismisses traditional on-premise IT control as a false illusion, prompting an immediate interruption from Steven who challenges the difficulty of telling leadership their past infrastructure investments were ineffective.1:01–3:08 · Guest teaching 5/10 Moving Away from Waterfall to Reversibility and Speed Steven framing the transition from traditional waterfall IT to continuous release cycles in the cloud. Kartik educates the discussion by citing a Facebook engineering concept around reversibility over complexity management.3:08–5:56 · Guest teaching 3/10 Iterative Development, MVPs, and the SaaS Ecosystem Steven demonstrates deep domain knowledge by challenging the consumer MVP mindset, pointing out fixed enterprise requirements like cash-to-quote and expense report processes. Kartik responds by highlighting how web services and modular architectures help overcome these fixed requirements.5:56–8:55 · Guest teaching 3/10 Operational SLA Pressures and Third-Party Dependencies Steven presses the guests on real-world support operational challenges and interrupts Kartik to question whether end users care if an outage is a third-party vendor's fault. Kartik explains how instrumentation allows teams to hold third-party vendors accountable.8:55–11:50 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Illusion of On-Prem Control and Hybrid Cloud Realities Alex dismisses traditional on-premise IT control as a false illusion, prompting an immediate interruption from Steven who challenges the difficulty of telling leadership their past infrastructure investments were ineffective.1:01–3:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Moving Away from Waterfall to Reversibility and Speed Steven framing the transition from traditional waterfall IT to continuous release cycles in the cloud. Kartik educates the discussion by citing a Facebook engineering concept around reversibility over complexity management.3:08–5:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Iterative Development, MVPs, and the SaaS Ecosystem Steven demonstrates deep domain knowledge by challenging the consumer MVP mindset, pointing out fixed enterprise requirements like cash-to-quote and expense report processes. Kartik responds by highlighting how web services and modular architectures help overcome these fixed requirements.5:56–8:55 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Operational SLA Pressures and Third-Party Dependencies Steven presses the guests on real-world support operational challenges and interrupts Kartik to question whether end users care if an outage is a third-party vendor's fault. Kartik explains how instrumentation allows teams to hold third-party vendors accountable.8:55–11:50 · Guest disagreement 4/10 The Illusion of On-Prem Control and Hybrid Cloud Realities Alex dismisses traditional on-premise IT control as a false illusion, prompting an immediate interruption from Steven who challenges the difficulty of telling leadership their past infrastructure investments were ineffective.1:01–3:08 · The host pushing back 1/10 Moving Away from Waterfall to Reversibility and Speed Steven framing the transition from traditional waterfall IT to continuous release cycles in the cloud. Kartik educates the discussion by citing a Facebook engineering concept around reversibility over complexity management.3:08–5:56 · The host pushing back 5/10 Iterative Development, MVPs, and the SaaS Ecosystem Steven demonstrates deep domain knowledge by challenging the consumer MVP mindset, pointing out fixed enterprise requirements like cash-to-quote and expense report processes. Kartik responds by highlighting how web services and modular architectures help overcome these fixed requirements.5:56–8:55 · The host pushing back 5/10 Operational SLA Pressures and Third-Party Dependencies Steven presses the guests on real-world support operational challenges and interrupts Kartik to question whether end users care if an outage is a third-party vendor's fault. Kartik explains how instrumentation allows teams to hold third-party vendors accountable.8:55–11:50 · The host pushing back 7/10 The Illusion of On-Prem Control and Hybrid Cloud Realities Alex dismisses traditional on-premise IT control as a false illusion, prompting an immediate interruption from Steven who challenges the difficulty of telling leadership their past infrastructure investments were ineffective.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:37 Alex calls on-premise control a false illusion

Alex forcefully rejects the traditional enterprise premise that on-premise deployment delivers actual control, characterizing it as a false illusion.

 Hardest push from the host ▶ 9:47 Steven interrupts Alex on enterprise expectations

Steven directly interrupts Alex to challenge his assertion, pointing out that enterprise IT leaders made major bets on on-prem control that cannot simply be dismissed.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:42 Kartik introduces the Facebook reversibility paradigm

Kartik reframes the waterfall discussion around complexity management versus software reversibility, citing insights from Facebook engineers.

 The host holds their own ▶ 4:32 Steven cites specific enterprise business workflows

Steven demonstrates strong expertise by listing specific enterprise processes like cash-to-quote and performance reviews to push back on consumer-style MVP thinking.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Moving Away from Waterfall to Reversibility and Speed 4511 Steven framing the transition from traditional waterfall IT to continuous release cycles in the cloud. Kartik educates the discussion by citing a Facebook engineering concept around reversibility over complexity management.
Iterative Development, MVPs, and the SaaS Ecosystem 6325 Steven demonstrates deep domain knowledge by challenging the consumer MVP mindset, pointing out fixed enterprise requirements like cash-to-quote and expense report processes. Kartik responds by highlighting how web services and modular architectures help overcome these fixed requirements.
Operational SLA Pressures and Third-Party Dependencies 6325 Steven presses the guests on real-world support operational challenges and interrupts Kartik to question whether end users care if an outage is a third-party vendor's fault. Kartik explains how instrumentation allows teams to hold third-party vendors accountable.
The Illusion of On-Prem Control and Hybrid Cloud Realities 5447 Alex dismisses traditional on-premise IT control as a false illusion, prompting an immediate interruption from Steven who challenges the difficulty of telling leadership their past infrastructure investments were ineffective.

Statements from this episode (3)

Insight
Rao: Two-year release cycles risk delivering obsolete enterprise software
“Ultimately, even in the enterprise world, markets are changing very quickly, and so if you're taking two years to get something out, the markets have probably changed in those two years.”
Kartik Rao Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:30
Assertion Contradicted
Solomon: Cloud app SLAs require financial refunds for outages
“Yeah, many of these applications have SLAs, so if the app is not up, you're actually, you have to refund money back, and so there's a lot more pressure on the IT department to deliver a hundred percent uptime.”
Alex Solomon Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:58
Opinion
Alex Solomon: On-premises IT control is a false illusion
“Yeah, I mean, I think the on-prem you know, the control aspect of it is, is a false illusion. I mean, the complexity of these systems is so high.”
Alex Solomon Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 9:38
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