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Jan 2, 2019 · 37m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Infrastructure... Is Everything

Martin Casado · 26m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 5m spoken Michael Copeland · 2m spoken
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In this episode of the a16z podcast, general partner Martin Casado joins hosts Sonal Chokshi and Michael Copeland to explore the evolution of enterprise infrastructure, the creation of Software Defined Networking (SDN), and key industry shifts in developer purchasing models and cybersecurity.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 16.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 3.7 Guest disagreement 0.9 The host pushing back 2.1
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:52–6:06 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Redefining Infrastructure Beyond the Boring Stereotype Michael explicitly challenges Martin's transition from nuclear simulation to intelligence, stating it makes no sense. Sonal adds thoughtful commentary on the dual mindsets of computer science as a language versus a tool.6:06–11:54 · The host as informed peer 4/10 The Origins and Core Concept of Software Defined Networking Martin explains the architectural motivations behind Software Defined Networking (SDN) and dismisses modern marketing definitions of the term. Sonal offers a relevant analogy to hardware/software decoupling in robotics, which Martin commends.11:54–17:44 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Founding Nicira and Transforming Enterprise Data Centers Martin breaks down Nicira's core technical bets around edge software ports and mega data centers. Sonal demonstrates domain familiarity by citing networking scientists' obsession with architecture and Gartner's magic quadrant findings.17:44–25:30 · The host as informed peer 5/10 Modernizing Data Center Security and Least Privilege Sonal presses Martin with sharp technical questions about whether moving security deeper into data centers creates more attack surfaces, and how least privilege maps to modern distributed application networks.25:30–32:05 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Developer-Driven Sales, Open Source, and As-A-Service Delivery Martin articulates the shift toward developer-driven sales, open source as marketing, and as-a-service models. Sonal offers astute commentary on how open source solves developer insertion rather than acting directly as the monetization engine.32:05–35:19 · The host as informed peer 2/10 From PhD Abstractness to Crisis-Forged Business Leadership Martin reflects on his transition from academic research to startup survival during the 2008 financial crash. The hosts listen attentively and offer lighthearted banter about Mordor as Martin shares his practical lessons.35:19–37:06 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Returning to Andreessen Horowitz and Looking Forward Martin shares the origin story of meeting Marc Andreessen before a16z was formally created and explains his motivation for becoming a venture partner. The dynamic is welcoming and completely collaborative.0:52–6:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Redefining Infrastructure Beyond the Boring Stereotype Michael explicitly challenges Martin's transition from nuclear simulation to intelligence, stating it makes no sense. Sonal adds thoughtful commentary on the dual mindsets of computer science as a language versus a tool.6:06–11:54 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Origins and Core Concept of Software Defined Networking Martin explains the architectural motivations behind Software Defined Networking (SDN) and dismisses modern marketing definitions of the term. Sonal offers a relevant analogy to hardware/software decoupling in robotics, which Martin commends.11:54–17:44 · Guest teaching 5/10 Founding Nicira and Transforming Enterprise Data Centers Martin breaks down Nicira's core technical bets around edge software ports and mega data centers. Sonal demonstrates domain familiarity by citing networking scientists' obsession with architecture and Gartner's magic quadrant findings.17:44–25:30 · Guest teaching 4/10 Modernizing Data Center Security and Least Privilege Sonal presses Martin with sharp technical questions about whether moving security deeper into data centers creates more attack surfaces, and how least privilege maps to modern distributed application networks.25:30–32:05 · Guest teaching 4/10 Developer-Driven Sales, Open Source, and As-A-Service Delivery Martin articulates the shift toward developer-driven sales, open source as marketing, and as-a-service models. Sonal offers astute commentary on how open source solves developer insertion rather than acting directly as the monetization engine.32:05–35:19 · Guest teaching 3/10 From PhD Abstractness to Crisis-Forged Business Leadership Martin reflects on his transition from academic research to startup survival during the 2008 financial crash. The hosts listen attentively and offer lighthearted banter about Mordor as Martin shares his practical lessons.35:19–37:06 · Guest teaching 2/10 Returning to Andreessen Horowitz and Looking Forward Martin shares the origin story of meeting Marc Andreessen before a16z was formally created and explains his motivation for becoming a venture partner. The dynamic is welcoming and completely collaborative.0:52–6:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Redefining Infrastructure Beyond the Boring Stereotype Michael explicitly challenges Martin's transition from nuclear simulation to intelligence, stating it makes no sense. Sonal adds thoughtful commentary on the dual mindsets of computer science as a language versus a tool.6:06–11:54 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Origins and Core Concept of Software Defined Networking Martin explains the architectural motivations behind Software Defined Networking (SDN) and dismisses modern marketing definitions of the term. Sonal offers a relevant analogy to hardware/software decoupling in robotics, which Martin commends.11:54–17:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Nicira and Transforming Enterprise Data Centers Martin breaks down Nicira's core technical bets around edge software ports and mega data centers. Sonal demonstrates domain familiarity by citing networking scientists' obsession with architecture and Gartner's magic quadrant findings.17:44–25:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Modernizing Data Center Security and Least Privilege Sonal presses Martin with sharp technical questions about whether moving security deeper into data centers creates more attack surfaces, and how least privilege maps to modern distributed application networks.25:30–32:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Developer-Driven Sales, Open Source, and As-A-Service Delivery Martin articulates the shift toward developer-driven sales, open source as marketing, and as-a-service models. Sonal offers astute commentary on how open source solves developer insertion rather than acting directly as the monetization engine.32:05–35:19 · Guest disagreement 0/10 From PhD Abstractness to Crisis-Forged Business Leadership Martin reflects on his transition from academic research to startup survival during the 2008 financial crash. The hosts listen attentively and offer lighthearted banter about Mordor as Martin shares his practical lessons.35:19–37:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Returning to Andreessen Horowitz and Looking Forward Martin shares the origin story of meeting Marc Andreessen before a16z was formally created and explains his motivation for becoming a venture partner. The dynamic is welcoming and completely collaborative.0:52–6:06 · The host pushing back 4/10 Redefining Infrastructure Beyond the Boring Stereotype Michael explicitly challenges Martin's transition from nuclear simulation to intelligence, stating it makes no sense. Sonal adds thoughtful commentary on the dual mindsets of computer science as a language versus a tool.6:06–11:54 · The host pushing back 2/10 The Origins and Core Concept of Software Defined Networking Martin explains the architectural motivations behind Software Defined Networking (SDN) and dismisses modern marketing definitions of the term. Sonal offers a relevant analogy to hardware/software decoupling in robotics, which Martin commends.11:54–17:44 · The host pushing back 2/10 Founding Nicira and Transforming Enterprise Data Centers Martin breaks down Nicira's core technical bets around edge software ports and mega data centers. Sonal demonstrates domain familiarity by citing networking scientists' obsession with architecture and Gartner's magic quadrant findings.17:44–25:30 · The host pushing back 4/10 Modernizing Data Center Security and Least Privilege Sonal presses Martin with sharp technical questions about whether moving security deeper into data centers creates more attack surfaces, and how least privilege maps to modern distributed application networks.25:30–32:05 · The host pushing back 2/10 Developer-Driven Sales, Open Source, and As-A-Service Delivery Martin articulates the shift toward developer-driven sales, open source as marketing, and as-a-service models. Sonal offers astute commentary on how open source solves developer insertion rather than acting directly as the monetization engine.32:05–35:19 · The host pushing back 1/10 From PhD Abstractness to Crisis-Forged Business Leadership Martin reflects on his transition from academic research to startup survival during the 2008 financial crash. The hosts listen attentively and offer lighthearted banter about Mordor as Martin shares his practical lessons.35:19–37:06 · The host pushing back 0/10 Returning to Andreessen Horowitz and Looking Forward Martin shares the origin story of meeting Marc Andreessen before a16z was formally created and explains his motivation for becoming a venture partner. The dynamic is welcoming and completely collaborative.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 41.3% · guest 58.7%0:00 · the host 41.3% · guest 58.7%3:00 · the host 15.8% · guest 84.2%3:00 · the host 15.8% · guest 84.2%6:00 · the host 4.8% · guest 95.2%6:00 · the host 4.8% · guest 95.2%9:00 · the host 13.8% · guest 86.2%9:00 · the host 13.8% · guest 86.2%12:00 · the host 13.3% · guest 86.7%12:00 · the host 13.3% · guest 86.7%15:00 · the host 21.9% · guest 78.1%15:00 · the host 21.9% · guest 78.1%18:00 · the host 8.9% · guest 91.1%18:00 · the host 8.9% · guest 91.1%21:00 · the host 15.9% · guest 84.1%21:00 · the host 15.9% · guest 84.1%24:00 · the host 16.5% · guest 83.5%24:00 · the host 16.5% · guest 83.5%27:00 · the host 19.6% · guest 80.4%27:00 · the host 19.6% · guest 80.4%30:00 · the host 26.1% · guest 73.9%30:00 · the host 26.1% · guest 73.9%33:00 · the host 2.5% · guest 97.5%33:00 · the host 2.5% · guest 97.5%36:00 · the host 1.9% · guest 98.1%36:00 · the host 1.9% · guest 98.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:39 Dismissing SDN marketing jargon

Martin rejects the popular industry framing of Software Defined Networking, stating that marketing departments have diluted the term to the point where it has become meaningless.

 Hardest push from the host ▶ 4:47 Michael directly questions career logic

Michael explicitly challenges Martin's narrative, stating that transitioning from nuclear weapons simulation to intelligence work makes no logical sense to him.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:30 Explaining the shift to software virtual ports

Martin reframes the entire hardware landscape by illustrating how VMware's software virtual ports would rapidly outnumber Cisco's physical ports, demonstrating where networking value was migrating.

 The host holds their own ▶ 9:47 Robotics paradigm shift analogy

Sonal demonstrates strong technical understanding by drawing an apt parallel to robotics history, where generic hardware was separated from control software, earning praise from the guest.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Redefining Infrastructure Beyond the Boring Stereotype 4314 Michael explicitly challenges Martin's transition from nuclear simulation to intelligence, stating it makes no sense. Sonal adds thoughtful commentary on the dual mindsets of computer science as a language versus a tool.
The Origins and Core Concept of Software Defined Networking 4522 Martin explains the architectural motivations behind Software Defined Networking (SDN) and dismisses modern marketing definitions of the term. Sonal offers a relevant analogy to hardware/software decoupling in robotics, which Martin commends.
Founding Nicira and Transforming Enterprise Data Centers 3512 Martin breaks down Nicira's core technical bets around edge software ports and mega data centers. Sonal demonstrates domain familiarity by citing networking scientists' obsession with architecture and Gartner's magic quadrant findings.
Modernizing Data Center Security and Least Privilege 5414 Sonal presses Martin with sharp technical questions about whether moving security deeper into data centers creates more attack surfaces, and how least privilege maps to modern distributed application networks.
Developer-Driven Sales, Open Source, and As-A-Service Delivery 4412 Martin articulates the shift toward developer-driven sales, open source as marketing, and as-a-service models. Sonal offers astute commentary on how open source solves developer insertion rather than acting directly as the monetization engine.
From PhD Abstractness to Crisis-Forged Business Leadership 2301 Martin reflects on his transition from academic research to startup survival during the 2008 financial crash. The hosts listen attentively and offer lighthearted banter about Mordor as Martin shares his practical lessons.
Returning to Andreessen Horowitz and Looking Forward 2200 Martin shares the origin story of meeting Marc Andreessen before a16z was formally created and explains his motivation for becoming a venture partner. The dynamic is welcoming and completely collaborative.

Statements from this episode (12)

Opinion
Casado: Major technical innovations happen at the infrastructure level
“If you want to see where the really magic happens and a lot of the big technical innovations happen to get the infrastructure level.”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 2:15
Opinion
Casado: Software-Defined Networking has become a meaningless marketing term
“Well, at this point, I think the terms become so diluted as to be meaningless. So if you hear the term software defined networking now, it's now the byproduct of a Bunch of marketing departments that will apply it to everything, right? And so even I don't know…”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 8:41
Assertion Supported
Casado: Programmable 10G switches cost $2,000 versus $100,000 legacy routers
“So before, to get a router, you know, you'd pony up a 100,000 bucks, and like, basically, you couldn't modify it. Today, I mean, you can get 48 ports of 10 gigs for 2000 dollars, and you can run your own software on it.”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 10:47
Disclosure
Casado: Nicira launched with AT&T, eBay, and Fidelity as customers
“When we launched the company, actually went public with the company, not like public as in the stock market, but we actually came out of stealth. We had AT&T, NTT, eBay, Rackspace, and Fidelity.”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 15:57
Assertion Supported
Casado: VMware was the only software vendor in Gartner's hardware quadrant
“Number one, this is a hardware quadrant. It's the only pure play software company ever.”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 17:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Casado: 80% of security spend targets data center perimeters unnecessarily
“80% of the security spend is at the perimeter of a data center, even though a minority of the traffic actually ever leaves the data center”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 18:29
Insight
Casado: Data centers must enforce least privilege access across servers
“In the case of the data center, if I'm a server, I should really only have to talk to other servers that I need to talk to and nothing else, but the reality is, is, you know, if I'm able to compromise a server, I can talk to anything that I want, and so we nee…”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 23:02
Insight
Casado: Modern applications have evolved into complex distributed networks
“The application has evolved into a network. I really believe that. So an application used to be like, I'm running Pac-Man, but that's no longer the case now. Like, think about like one query to Google, man. Like, you're literally touching hundreds of compute n…”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 23:57
Insight
Casado: Open source software functions primarily as marketing to developers
“So, so, so open source becomes very viable marketing.”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 29:03
Insight
Casado: Open source business models often resemble low-margin professional services
“Like Silicon Valley loves software companies because you get a repeatable product to market with a really high margin and high multiples. But if you start looking around a lot of the open source business models, it looks a little bit like a PSO company, which …”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 31:11
Opinion
Casado: PhD research focuses on far-future ideas over immediate value
“PhD is about, I'm going to do a Hail Mary, and honestly, maybe, you know, three generations ahead of somebody will care, but like, if someone cares now, it's not novel enough”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 34:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Casado: Nicira froze headcount at 12 people for two years
“And so we spent two years at about 12 people. We didn't grow at all. We stayed very focused.”
Martin Casado Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 34:40
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