Jan 2, 2019 · 23m · a16z

a16z Podcast | On Government as Software Builder, Not Just Buyer

Sonal Chokshi · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of the a16z podcast, U.S. Digital Service (USDS) leaders Mikey and Haley discuss how embedding Silicon Valley technologists in federal agencies modernizes government software, streamlines internal workflows, and creates a culture of civic tech service.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 27.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 1.6 The host pushing back 2.4
05100:0010:0020:003:10–6:11 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Startup Agility vs. Government Bureaucracy Sonal asks how the team operates like a startup despite multi-stakeholder bureaucracy. Mikey clarifies that government doesn't move fast and break things like Facebook, but can move surprisingly quickly when projects are mission-critical.6:11–11:24 · The host as informed peer 5/10 User-Centered Design and Direct Observation When Sonal suggests user testing feels obvious to Silicon Valley startups, Mikey reframes the premise by pointing out the prevailing Silicon Valley myth of the hero product visionary like Steve Jobs. Sonal later shows expertise by noting an HBR article that debunked the Henry Ford quote cited by Mikey.11:24–13:39 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Transforming Internal Government Workflows and Systems Haley and Mikey explain how USDS improved VA services not just externally but by revamping unglamorous internal adjudicator workflow tools like Caseflow. Sonal primarily listens and validates their impact.13:39–19:33 · The host as informed peer 6/10 Government as Buyer vs. Builder and Procurement Reform Sonal pushes back with a tough question asking why government doesn't simply outsource tech projects to external contractors. Mikey explains that USDS acts as a boundary-traversing internal team and clarifies when government should buy off-the-shelf software versus build custom systems.19:33–22:17 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Wartime vs. Peacetime Strategy in Public Service Sonal introduces Ben Horowitz's wartime versus peacetime CEO framework. Mikey expands on this by contrasting modern management empty platitudes with historical insights from a 1965 Rand Corporation report on government urgency.3:10–6:11 · Guest teaching 4/10 Startup Agility vs. Government Bureaucracy Sonal asks how the team operates like a startup despite multi-stakeholder bureaucracy. Mikey clarifies that government doesn't move fast and break things like Facebook, but can move surprisingly quickly when projects are mission-critical.6:11–11:24 · Guest teaching 5/10 User-Centered Design and Direct Observation When Sonal suggests user testing feels obvious to Silicon Valley startups, Mikey reframes the premise by pointing out the prevailing Silicon Valley myth of the hero product visionary like Steve Jobs. Sonal later shows expertise by noting an HBR article that debunked the Henry Ford quote cited by Mikey.11:24–13:39 · Guest teaching 4/10 Transforming Internal Government Workflows and Systems Haley and Mikey explain how USDS improved VA services not just externally but by revamping unglamorous internal adjudicator workflow tools like Caseflow. Sonal primarily listens and validates their impact.13:39–19:33 · Guest teaching 5/10 Government as Buyer vs. Builder and Procurement Reform Sonal pushes back with a tough question asking why government doesn't simply outsource tech projects to external contractors. Mikey explains that USDS acts as a boundary-traversing internal team and clarifies when government should buy off-the-shelf software versus build custom systems.19:33–22:17 · Guest teaching 5/10 Wartime vs. Peacetime Strategy in Public Service Sonal introduces Ben Horowitz's wartime versus peacetime CEO framework. Mikey expands on this by contrasting modern management empty platitudes with historical insights from a 1965 Rand Corporation report on government urgency.3:10–6:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Startup Agility vs. Government Bureaucracy Sonal asks how the team operates like a startup despite multi-stakeholder bureaucracy. Mikey clarifies that government doesn't move fast and break things like Facebook, but can move surprisingly quickly when projects are mission-critical.6:11–11:24 · Guest disagreement 3/10 User-Centered Design and Direct Observation When Sonal suggests user testing feels obvious to Silicon Valley startups, Mikey reframes the premise by pointing out the prevailing Silicon Valley myth of the hero product visionary like Steve Jobs. Sonal later shows expertise by noting an HBR article that debunked the Henry Ford quote cited by Mikey.11:24–13:39 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Transforming Internal Government Workflows and Systems Haley and Mikey explain how USDS improved VA services not just externally but by revamping unglamorous internal adjudicator workflow tools like Caseflow. Sonal primarily listens and validates their impact.13:39–19:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Government as Buyer vs. Builder and Procurement Reform Sonal pushes back with a tough question asking why government doesn't simply outsource tech projects to external contractors. Mikey explains that USDS acts as a boundary-traversing internal team and clarifies when government should buy off-the-shelf software versus build custom systems.19:33–22:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Wartime vs. Peacetime Strategy in Public Service Sonal introduces Ben Horowitz's wartime versus peacetime CEO framework. Mikey expands on this by contrasting modern management empty platitudes with historical insights from a 1965 Rand Corporation report on government urgency.3:10–6:11 · The host pushing back 2/10 Startup Agility vs. Government Bureaucracy Sonal asks how the team operates like a startup despite multi-stakeholder bureaucracy. Mikey clarifies that government doesn't move fast and break things like Facebook, but can move surprisingly quickly when projects are mission-critical.6:11–11:24 · The host pushing back 3/10 User-Centered Design and Direct Observation When Sonal suggests user testing feels obvious to Silicon Valley startups, Mikey reframes the premise by pointing out the prevailing Silicon Valley myth of the hero product visionary like Steve Jobs. Sonal later shows expertise by noting an HBR article that debunked the Henry Ford quote cited by Mikey.11:24–13:39 · The host pushing back 1/10 Transforming Internal Government Workflows and Systems Haley and Mikey explain how USDS improved VA services not just externally but by revamping unglamorous internal adjudicator workflow tools like Caseflow. Sonal primarily listens and validates their impact.13:39–19:33 · The host pushing back 5/10 Government as Buyer vs. Builder and Procurement Reform Sonal pushes back with a tough question asking why government doesn't simply outsource tech projects to external contractors. Mikey explains that USDS acts as a boundary-traversing internal team and clarifies when government should buy off-the-shelf software versus build custom systems.19:33–22:17 · The host pushing back 1/10 Wartime vs. Peacetime Strategy in Public Service Sonal introduces Ben Horowitz's wartime versus peacetime CEO framework. Mikey expands on this by contrasting modern management empty platitudes with historical insights from a 1965 Rand Corporation report on government urgency.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 52.1% · guest 47.9%0:00 · the host 52.1% · guest 47.9%3:00 · the host 19.1% · guest 80.9%3:00 · the host 19.1% · guest 80.9%6:00 · the host 29.9% · guest 70.1%6:00 · the host 29.9% · guest 70.1%9:00 · the host 16.6% · guest 83.4%9:00 · the host 16.6% · guest 83.4%12:00 · the host 20% · guest 80%12:00 · the host 20% · guest 80%15:00 · the host 41.5% · guest 58.5%15:00 · the host 41.5% · guest 58.5%18:00 · the host 15.4% · guest 84.6%18:00 · the host 15.4% · guest 84.6%21:00 · the host 25.2% · guest 74.8%21:00 · the host 25.2% · guest 74.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:00 Challenging Silicon Valley Assumptions

Mikey gently rejects Sonal's assertion that user-centered research is second nature to tech startups, pointing out the Silicon Valley myth of the all-knowing hero visionary.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 13:39 Questioning the Government Builder Premise

Sonal challenges the guests on why an internal government startup is needed at all rather than just outsourcing work to outside startup contractors.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 21:03 Historical Bureaucracy and Urgency Lessons

Mikey educates the host on public sector dynamics by citing a 1965 Rand report on the Manhattan and Apollo projects, contrasting real existential urgency with modern management platitudes.

The host holds their own ▶ 10:14 Debunking the Henry Ford Quote

Sonal demonstrates her knowledge by pointing out that an HBR article debunked the famous Henry Ford faster horses quote cited by Mikey.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Startup Agility vs. Government Bureaucracy 3412 Sonal asks how the team operates like a startup despite multi-stakeholder bureaucracy. Mikey clarifies that government doesn't move fast and break things like Facebook, but can move surprisingly quickly when projects are mission-critical.
User-Centered Design and Direct Observation 5533 When Sonal suggests user testing feels obvious to Silicon Valley startups, Mikey reframes the premise by pointing out the prevailing Silicon Valley myth of the hero product visionary like Steve Jobs. Sonal later shows expertise by noting an HBR article that debunked the Henry Ford quote cited by Mikey.
Transforming Internal Government Workflows and Systems 2411 Haley and Mikey explain how USDS improved VA services not just externally but by revamping unglamorous internal adjudicator workflow tools like Caseflow. Sonal primarily listens and validates their impact.
Government as Buyer vs. Builder and Procurement Reform 6525 Sonal pushes back with a tough question asking why government doesn't simply outsource tech projects to external contractors. Mikey explains that USDS acts as a boundary-traversing internal team and clarifies when government should buy off-the-shelf software versus build custom systems.
Wartime vs. Peacetime Strategy in Public Service 4511 Sonal introduces Ben Horowitz's wartime versus peacetime CEO framework. Mikey expands on this by contrasting modern management empty platitudes with historical insights from a 1965 Rand Corporation report on government urgency.

Statements from this episode (0)

Nothing in this episode matches those filters. clear them

Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 1,000 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.