Jan 2, 2019 · 21m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Mastering the Game (with David Oyelowo)

David Oyelowo · 14m spoken Ben Horowitz · 4m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 26s spoken
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In this a16z podcast panel, venture capitalist Ben Horowitz hosts actor David Oyelowo to discuss the Disney film Queen of Katwe, examining the importance of authentic African representation, intentional role selection, and how artistic excellence can dismantle systemic biases in Hollywood.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 3.8 Guest disagreement 1.3 The host pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:0020:000:28–4:18 · The host as informed peer 1/10 Audience Applause and Initial Gratitude Ben asks a simple introductory question allowing David to expand on how African narratives in film are usually filtered through white protagonists, providing an insightful reframing of Hollywood's traditional tropes.4:18–6:30 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Capturing Joy and Humanity Amid Hardship Ben highlights how the movie balances depicting poverty with joy, prompting David to tell a moving story about a makeup artist who re-evaluated her own life after seeing the resilience and happiness of Ugandans.6:30–9:29 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Purposeful Role Selection and Character Alignment Ben asks if David identified with Robert Katende's personal choices, leading David to articulate his mission of using his platform to broaden how black and female identity are depicted in global cinema.9:29–11:56 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Exploring African-American History and Identity Ben asks how a British-Nigerian actor prepared for iconic African-American roles, and David outlines the accidental historical timeline created by his various movie projects during the Obama era.11:56–15:24 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Authentic Cultural Details and Team Traditions Ben notices cultural details like the handshake, which David confirms is authentic before offering glowing praise for Lupita Nyong'o's talent and transformative presence.15:24–18:23 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Navigating Hollywood Bias Through Excellence Ben asks a strategic question about managing Lupita's career, and David uses it to expose the stark double standards in how Hollywood handles black female stars post-Oscar compared to their white peers.18:23–21:13 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Disney's Non-Franchise Bet and Eroding Excuses Ben points out Disney's typical reliance on merchandise-friendly franchises, which David humorously deflects with a joke about action figures before explaining how excellence slowly erodes studio excuses.21:13–21:41 · The host as informed peer 0/10 Conclusion and Audience Acknowledgments Ben wraps up the event with closing praise for David and the film, ending the session on a warm and appreciative note.0:28–4:18 · Guest teaching 3/10 Audience Applause and Initial Gratitude Ben asks a simple introductory question allowing David to expand on how African narratives in film are usually filtered through white protagonists, providing an insightful reframing of Hollywood's traditional tropes.4:18–6:30 · Guest teaching 4/10 Capturing Joy and Humanity Amid Hardship Ben highlights how the movie balances depicting poverty with joy, prompting David to tell a moving story about a makeup artist who re-evaluated her own life after seeing the resilience and happiness of Ugandans.6:30–9:29 · Guest teaching 4/10 Purposeful Role Selection and Character Alignment Ben asks if David identified with Robert Katende's personal choices, leading David to articulate his mission of using his platform to broaden how black and female identity are depicted in global cinema.9:29–11:56 · Guest teaching 5/10 Exploring African-American History and Identity Ben asks how a British-Nigerian actor prepared for iconic African-American roles, and David outlines the accidental historical timeline created by his various movie projects during the Obama era.11:56–15:24 · Guest teaching 3/10 Authentic Cultural Details and Team Traditions Ben notices cultural details like the handshake, which David confirms is authentic before offering glowing praise for Lupita Nyong'o's talent and transformative presence.15:24–18:23 · Guest teaching 6/10 Navigating Hollywood Bias Through Excellence Ben asks a strategic question about managing Lupita's career, and David uses it to expose the stark double standards in how Hollywood handles black female stars post-Oscar compared to their white peers.18:23–21:13 · Guest teaching 5/10 Disney's Non-Franchise Bet and Eroding Excuses Ben points out Disney's typical reliance on merchandise-friendly franchises, which David humorously deflects with a joke about action figures before explaining how excellence slowly erodes studio excuses.21:13–21:41 · Guest teaching 0/10 Conclusion and Audience Acknowledgments Ben wraps up the event with closing praise for David and the film, ending the session on a warm and appreciative note.0:28–4:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Audience Applause and Initial Gratitude Ben asks a simple introductory question allowing David to expand on how African narratives in film are usually filtered through white protagonists, providing an insightful reframing of Hollywood's traditional tropes.4:18–6:30 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Capturing Joy and Humanity Amid Hardship Ben highlights how the movie balances depicting poverty with joy, prompting David to tell a moving story about a makeup artist who re-evaluated her own life after seeing the resilience and happiness of Ugandans.6:30–9:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Purposeful Role Selection and Character Alignment Ben asks if David identified with Robert Katende's personal choices, leading David to articulate his mission of using his platform to broaden how black and female identity are depicted in global cinema.9:29–11:56 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Exploring African-American History and Identity Ben asks how a British-Nigerian actor prepared for iconic African-American roles, and David outlines the accidental historical timeline created by his various movie projects during the Obama era.11:56–15:24 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Authentic Cultural Details and Team Traditions Ben notices cultural details like the handshake, which David confirms is authentic before offering glowing praise for Lupita Nyong'o's talent and transformative presence.15:24–18:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Navigating Hollywood Bias Through Excellence Ben asks a strategic question about managing Lupita's career, and David uses it to expose the stark double standards in how Hollywood handles black female stars post-Oscar compared to their white peers.18:23–21:13 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Disney's Non-Franchise Bet and Eroding Excuses Ben points out Disney's typical reliance on merchandise-friendly franchises, which David humorously deflects with a joke about action figures before explaining how excellence slowly erodes studio excuses.21:13–21:41 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Conclusion and Audience Acknowledgments Ben wraps up the event with closing praise for David and the film, ending the session on a warm and appreciative note.0:28–4:18 · The host pushing back 0/10 Audience Applause and Initial Gratitude Ben asks a simple introductory question allowing David to expand on how African narratives in film are usually filtered through white protagonists, providing an insightful reframing of Hollywood's traditional tropes.4:18–6:30 · The host pushing back 0/10 Capturing Joy and Humanity Amid Hardship Ben highlights how the movie balances depicting poverty with joy, prompting David to tell a moving story about a makeup artist who re-evaluated her own life after seeing the resilience and happiness of Ugandans.6:30–9:29 · The host pushing back 0/10 Purposeful Role Selection and Character Alignment Ben asks if David identified with Robert Katende's personal choices, leading David to articulate his mission of using his platform to broaden how black and female identity are depicted in global cinema.9:29–11:56 · The host pushing back 0/10 Exploring African-American History and Identity Ben asks how a British-Nigerian actor prepared for iconic African-American roles, and David outlines the accidental historical timeline created by his various movie projects during the Obama era.11:56–15:24 · The host pushing back 0/10 Authentic Cultural Details and Team Traditions Ben notices cultural details like the handshake, which David confirms is authentic before offering glowing praise for Lupita Nyong'o's talent and transformative presence.15:24–18:23 · The host pushing back 0/10 Navigating Hollywood Bias Through Excellence Ben asks a strategic question about managing Lupita's career, and David uses it to expose the stark double standards in how Hollywood handles black female stars post-Oscar compared to their white peers.18:23–21:13 · The host pushing back 0/10 Disney's Non-Franchise Bet and Eroding Excuses Ben points out Disney's typical reliance on merchandise-friendly franchises, which David humorously deflects with a joke about action figures before explaining how excellence slowly erodes studio excuses.21:13–21:41 · The host pushing back 0/10 Conclusion and Audience Acknowledgments Ben wraps up the event with closing praise for David and the film, ending the session on a warm and appreciative note.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:40 Playful Rejection of Non-Franchise Premise

David playfully rejects Ben's claim that there is no merchandise potential for the film, deadpanning that Katende dolls with interchangeable shirts are already on the way.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 4:04 Pushing Back on Studio Casting Tendencies

Ben interjects to note that a white savior narrative would still get made today by certain studio executives, pushing back slightly on David's timeframe assumption.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:33 Exposing Hollywood's Double Standard for Black Actresses

David educates Ben on the stark reality of post-Oscar career trajectories, comparing Lupita Nyong'o's long gap in live-action films to white stars like Jennifer Lawrence, Amy Adams, and Brie Larson who get immediate major slates.

The host holds their own ▶ 15:24 Strategic Talent Management Framing

Ben demonstrates strong industry insight into agency talent management by asking how best to navigate blockbuster exposure versus culturally significant art films for black stars.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Audience Applause and Initial Gratitude 1310 Ben asks a simple introductory question allowing David to expand on how African narratives in film are usually filtered through white protagonists, providing an insightful reframing of Hollywood's traditional tropes.
Capturing Joy and Humanity Amid Hardship 2400 Ben highlights how the movie balances depicting poverty with joy, prompting David to tell a moving story about a makeup artist who re-evaluated her own life after seeing the resilience and happiness of Ugandans.
Purposeful Role Selection and Character Alignment 3410 Ben asks if David identified with Robert Katende's personal choices, leading David to articulate his mission of using his platform to broaden how black and female identity are depicted in global cinema.
Exploring African-American History and Identity 2510 Ben asks how a British-Nigerian actor prepared for iconic African-American roles, and David outlines the accidental historical timeline created by his various movie projects during the Obama era.
Authentic Cultural Details and Team Traditions 2320 Ben notices cultural details like the handshake, which David confirms is authentic before offering glowing praise for Lupita Nyong'o's talent and transformative presence.
Navigating Hollywood Bias Through Excellence 3620 Ben asks a strategic question about managing Lupita's career, and David uses it to expose the stark double standards in how Hollywood handles black female stars post-Oscar compared to their white peers.
Disney's Non-Franchise Bet and Eroding Excuses 3530 Ben points out Disney's typical reliance on merchandise-friendly franchises, which David humorously deflects with a joke about action figures before explaining how excellence slowly erodes studio excuses.
Conclusion and Audience Acknowledgments 0000 Ben wraps up the event with closing praise for David and the film, ending the session on a warm and appreciative note.

Statements from this episode (9)

Opinion
Oyelowo: Positive depictions of African communities remain rare in cinema
“As you can probably tell from watching the film, these are images we don't tend to get to see, of people we don't tend to get to see in this way.”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 0:56
What-if
Oyelowo: Disney's 'Queen of Katwe' wouldn't exist without Tendo Nagenda
“There is no way, I think, that this film will be getting made if he didn't make it his passion and he didn't walk it down the halls to get it made.”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:00
Opinion
Oyelowo: Female directors are essential to centering female perspectives in film
“I think that a female director directing this is why you have an eleven-year-old girl as the center of the story. That's why we need female directors. That's why we need different voices telling these stories.”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:30
What-if
Oyelowo: A decade ago, Queen of Katwe would feature a white savior
“It's because Of Tendo Nagenda being at the center of getting this made, that my character isn't a white missionary which is what it would, which is what it has been up until, you know, when I say a white savior, that's how this film would have got made 10 year…”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:49
Assertion Supported
Horowitz: Queen of Katwe production budget was $15 million
“And you chose to make this movie, which is, you know, the entire budget for the film was only fifteen million dollars, so”
Ben Horowitz Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:54
Insight
Oyelowo: Obama's presidency drove Hollywood's wave of African-American history films
“You know, I think those films got made because this country, as it still is, reeling from the fact that we've had an African American president for eight years.”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 10:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Oyelowo: Lupita Nyong'o's star power was essential for Disney greenlighting Katwe
“She is one of the reasons the movie gets made, because when you don't have someone like that, that gives a company like Disney the confidence to make the film, because that, you know, at the end of the day, you want people in these movies that draw a crowd, an…”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 14:23
Insight
David Oyelowo: Excellence is the most effective weapon against prejudice
“The best weapon, in my view, against prejudice is excellence. If you constantly remain on the undeniable path of excellence, you literally shame people into giving you your opportunities, into making the opportunities that you create yourself.”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 17:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Oyelowo: Hollywood had no comparable films for Queen of Katwe
“What we tend to do in Hollywood is we think about comps. What is the film like? We just don't have comps.”
David Oyelowo Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 19:09
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