Jan 2, 2019 · 11m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Of Governors and Mayors, and Tech Policy

Doug Ducey · 4m spoken Pete Buttigieg · 3m spoken Ted Ullyot · 3m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 28s spoken

0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this panel discussion from the a16z Podcast, Arizona Governor Doug Ducey and South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg discuss how state and municipal leaders drive technological adoption and economic growth through nonpartisan governance, regulatory reform, and real-world testing. They explain how agile local governance often outperforms federal frameworks in accommodating emerging technologies like autonomous vehicles and micro-mobility.

Chapters · click to jump

1 statement ▾

Ducey: Arizona fired agency head who planned sting against Uber and Lyft open →

3 statements ▾

Buttigieg: South Bend's population is growing again after dropping to 100,000 open →

Buttigieg: Mid-sized cities are ideal tech testbeds due to mayoral access open →

Buttigieg: South Bend spent zero city cash deploying LimeBike open →

2 statements ▾

Buttigieg: Service delivery demands prevent local governments from shutting down politically open →

Ducey: Restrictive regulations in other states drove AV testing to Arizona open →

2 statements ▾

Ducey: Bureaucrats default to institutional refusal, requiring leaders to change culture open →

Buttigieg: Internal government bureaucracy is the primary obstacle to innovation open →

3 statements ▾

Ducey: Arizona will eliminate 500 regulations from the books this year open →

Ducey: Autonomous vehicles are nearly ready for prime time open →

Ducey: 94% of America's 38,000 annual traffic deaths stem from human error open →

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 1.0 The host pushing back 0.3

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

Sharpest disagreement ▶ 6:35 Ducey criticizes restrictive governors

Governor Ducey strongly critiques other state governors for suffocating innovation with permitting fees and recertifications, driving AV companies to move testing to Arizona.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 7:09 Ullyot presses on public acceptance and safety

Host Ted Ullyot presses Ducey on how he actually convinces skeptical constituencies that autonomous vehicles are safer than human drivers rather than just removing rules.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:45 Buttigieg explains dockless bike economics

Mayor Buttigieg educates the host and public on how dockless bike sharing operates at zero taxpayer cost, clearing up misunderstandings regarding public funding.

The host holds their own ▶ 4:51 Ullyot lists nonpartisan tech domains

Ted Ullyot demonstrates industry knowledge by citing specific emerging sectors like fintech, drones, and AVs that defy traditional partisan political lines.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each

Topic	The host as informed peer	Guest teaching	Guest disagreement	The host pushing back	Why
Autonomous Vehicles and Deregulation in Arizona	2	3	1	0	Host Ted Ullyot sets up open questions regarding state and city adoption of tech innovations. Guests Doug Ducey and Pete Buttigieg cooperatively share policy anecdotes about removing legacy taxicab regulations and introducing bike-share programs without city funding.
Bipartisanship and Nonpartisan Local Governance	3	2	1	0	Ullyot outlines nonpartisan tech policy topics like drones, fintech, and autonomous vehicles. The guests agree enthusiastically, with Ducey noting how red tape in other states drove autonomous vehicle testing to Arizona.
Overcoming Internal Bureaucracy and Leading Change	2	2	1	1	Ullyot asks how leaders overcome internal bureaucratic resistance and convince public constituencies on safety. Ducey and Buttigieg describe internal culture shifts and applying private-sector management principles to government agencies.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Partly supported

Ducey: Arizona fired agency head who planned sting against Uber and Lyft

“Our agency head at the Department of Weights and Measures told us that his plan during the Super Bowl was to shut down Uber and Lyft with a sting, and we thought this guy didn't pay much attention to the campaign. So we returned him to the private sector that …”

Doug Ducey Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 1:50

Assertion Supported

Buttigieg: South Bend's population is growing again after dropping to 100,000

“We grew up around the auto industry when Studebaker was making cars, and we grew to a scale, ah, about a 130,000 at our peak. Now we're down to about a hundred, but growing again for the first time in a while.”

Pete Buttigieg Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:19

Insight

Buttigieg: Mid-sized cities are ideal tech testbeds due to mayoral access

“If an idea or a technology or an approach works in a place like South Bend, that matters. We're also small. We're small enough you can get the attention of the mayor. We're small enough we can be creative around any regulations, tear down barriers.”

Pete Buttigieg Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 3:37

Assertion Supported

Buttigieg: South Bend spent zero city cash deploying LimeBike

“And actually, the biggest issue I've had is just Dealing with people who want to know how much tax money we've spent on it, not understanding the business model, which is that we put no city cash at all.”

Pete Buttigieg Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 4:01

Insight

Buttigieg: Service delivery demands prevent local governments from shutting down politically

“You will never hear about a state or a local government shutting down over partisan disagreement, right? We deliver water. You need water to live. And so, it's not even on the table. We are under a pressure to deliver that, I think, compels us to be more open …”

Pete Buttigieg Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:35

Assertion Supported

Ducey: Restrictive regulations in other states drove AV testing to Arizona

“The New York Times front page of the business section recognized that self-driving vehicles were coming to Arizona today. To learn. And that was actually a result of other governors pushing them out and saying, we're going to hit you with permitting fees. We'r…”

Doug Ducey Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:42

Insight

Ducey: Bureaucrats default to institutional refusal, requiring leaders to change culture

“Oftentimes, a bureaucrat, they will default to that, so as a leader, you have to change the culture.”

Doug Ducey Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 8:12

Insight

Buttigieg: Internal government bureaucracy is the primary obstacle to innovation

“A lot of the resistance is actually inside government.”

Pete Buttigieg Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 8:44

Prediction Held up

Ducey: Arizona will eliminate 500 regulations from the books this year

“In Arizona, we will wipe from the books this calendar year, 500 regulations.”

Doug Ducey Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 10:33

Opinion

Ducey: Autonomous vehicles are nearly ready for prime time

“I've ridden in three autonomous vehicles, and boy, these things are very close to ready for prime time.”

Doug Ducey Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 11:11

Assertion Supported

Ducey: 94% of America's 38,000 annual traffic deaths stem from human error

“I think we have 38,000 deaths annually in America, 94% of them, due to human error.”

Doug Ducey Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 11:29

a16z Podcast | Of Governors and Mayors, and Tech Policy

How this conversation actually went

Statements from this episode (11)

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