Nov 9, 2022 · 1h 26m · a16z
Privateer’s Steve Wozniak, Alex Fielding, and Dr. Moriba Jah on the Data Highway Above
Alex Fielding · 29m spoken Steph Smith · 19m spoken Steve Wozniak · 16m spoken Dr. Moriba Jah · 12m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of The a16z Podcast, host Steph Smith speaks with Privateer co-founders Steve Wozniak, Alex Fielding, and Dr. Moriba Jah to explore the urgent challenge of orbital debris in low Earth orbit. The founders discuss how open-source data tracking, economic incentives, and space traffic management are essential to safeguard critical terrestrial infrastructure and ensure sustainable space exploration.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 25.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 3.3 Guest teaching 4.4 Guest disagreement 0.4 The host pushing back 0.6
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 47:25 Alex calls legacy SSA models mafia extortion
Alex forcefully condemns legacy space situational awareness companies, comparing their monetization models directly to mafia extortion tactics.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 1:06:58 Steph challenges empathy-based environmental modelsSteph explicitly refuses Alex's framing that human empathy will protect space, bringing up terrestrial environmental failures and demanding economic incentive structures instead.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 26:08 Moriba reframes proximity to Low Earth OrbitMoriba corrects Steph's perception of space as a distant void by pointing out he is physically closer to LEO than to her location in California.
The host holds their own ▶ 1:06:58 Steph cites carbon taxes and economic incentivesSteph demonstrates expertise by referencing carbon pricing and environmental policy mechanics to counter Alex's reliance on human empathy.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Disclosure & Legal Disclaimer | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Steph opens with high praise and asks open-ended biographical and philosophical questions. Steve Wozniak reflects warmly on founding Apple, working with Steve Jobs, and distinguishing between engineers and inventors without any confrontation. | |
| Understanding Low Earth Orbit and the Reality of Space Debris | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Steph frames space as an infinite void and asks why space pollution is less known than terrestrial pollution. Dr. Moriba Jah gently educates her on how close Low Earth Orbit actually is relative to terrestrial distances. | |
| The Scale of Debris, Policy Gaps, and Lack of Enforcement | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Steph prompts the guests about debris scale and regulation enforcement. Alex Fielding explains radar tracking limits, insurance exclusions, and Moriba highlights that 40% of registered space objects violate treaties without enforcement. | |
| Exponential Launches, Elon's Orbit, and Orbital Carrying Capacity | 4 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Steph notes the exponential drop in launch costs per kilogram. Moriba explains how SpaceX effectively occupies an orbital shell ('Elon's orbit'), while Alex compares orbital capacity to annual automotive production. | |
| Terrestrial Reliance on Space Infrastructure and GPS Fragility | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Steph asks about terrestrial dependence on space infrastructure and system redundancy. Alex and Moriba point out how fragile GPS is with only 30 operational US satellites and a surprisingly low 95% SLA. | |
| Privateer's Mission: Wayfinder, Open Data, and Democratizing SSA | 3 | 4 | 2 | 0 | Alex outlines Privateer's mission to democratize space situational awareness data, aggressively comparing legacy tracking providers to extortionists using mafia tactics. Steph asks how they persuade operators to share telemetry. | |
| Circular Economy in Space and Discerning Intent vs. Capability | 3 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Steph inquires about understanding intent vs capability regarding potential space collisions. Moriba explains that no 'intentometer' exists and cautions against geopolitical prejudice when evaluating orbital behavior. | |
| The Need for a Space User Manual and Geopolitical Transparency | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Alex notes the lack of a space user manual and mentions the Russian ASAT test. Moriba redefines STEM around universal problem solving and solution creation rather than formal PhD credentials. | |
| Designing Incentives, Traffic Control, and Tragedy of the Commons | 7 | 5 | 0 | 7 | Steph actively pushes back against Alex's optimism about human empathy driving space preservation, citing historical terrestrial pollution and economic models like carbon taxes. Alex concedes her point and pivots to enforcement requirements. | |
| Space Sustainability, Wozniak's HP Notebook, and the Commercial Shift | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Steph reflects on the power of vocabulary and exponential curves in technology adoption. Alex shares a story of finding Wozniak's original handwritten Apple schematics mixed with Beatles lyrics in his garage. | |
| Bonus Conversation with Steve Wozniak on Space Cleanup and Iteration | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | In a brief bonus wrap-up, Wozniak humorously suggests satellites breaking into gummy bears or gas, and highlights how startup business models must continuously iterate. |
Statements from this episode (27)
Fielding: Privateer's space map uses live data, not simulation
“These are live data. This is not a simulation.”
Fielding: Humanity has turned Earth's orbit into a giant ball of trash
“We've made a giant ball of trash.”
Wozniak: Privateer will shape international space treaties and communications
“And I expect that, that Privateer will be very involved in communications between different parties, even different countries, and probably, you know, even getting into things like treaties involving space, some kinds of agreements so we can work better and un…”
Wozniak: I funded a sea-launch rocket startup with Apple's Mike Scott
“When Apple went public around 1980 our president, Mike Scott, maybe 81 or two started a little company with some people. I even, I funded into that. He's a friend. And actually we did a launch of a rocket from out at sea from somewhere.”
Wozniak: Governments are stale in innovation despite having all resources
“Now governments have all the resources, you know, but they're stale in their approaches because of it.”
Wozniak: I do not invest in stocks or cryptocurrency
“I don't invest. I don't even invest in crypto. I don't invest in stocks.”
Wozniak: Privateer will focus on space data, not debris removal
“We're not going to go up and try to gather things, you know, and bring them down. Some people are trying that. We just want to make the information available so people could do it if they want to.”
Jah: In 2006, orbit had 1,200 satellites and 26,000 pieces of debris
“At that time in 2006, there were only 1200 working satellites and 26,000 pieces of garbage.”
Jah: 96% of all objects humans launch into space become garbage
“How is that, how is it okay for, like, 96% of the stuff that we put in space to turn out To be garbage.”
Fielding: Space insurance policies frequently exclude damage from space debris
“Many insurance policies in space on the riders exclude space debris from a covered loss.”
Fielding: Over 40% of registered space objects violate international space treaties
“Where they looked at how many objects in space are in or out of compliance with the Space Act and treaties. And the number out of compliance is over 40% of those registered objects are out of compliance.”
Jah: Governments, not private companies, bear international liability for space damage
“In terms of international law, all the responsibility for liability, damage, harmful interference, doesn't fall on the shoulders of companies. It's on governments that give them license and authorize them to actually operate in space.”
Jah: SpaceX operates nearly 3,000 satellites at a 500-kilometer altitude
“Elon has almost 3000 satellites at 500 kilometer altitude, and it would be wise for you to talk to Elon before you try to go through the orbital shell that he has.”
Jah: Unchanged behavior will saturate orbital highway capacity
“I predict with absolute certainty, if our behavior doesn't change, there will be orbital highways whose capacity will be saturated, and we'll, we're just gonna see an increasing amount of undesirable outcomes occur.”
Fielding: US GPS constellation has stayed at roughly 30 satellites for 22 years
“We haven't really grown that constellation in 22 years. It's still about a 30 GPS satellites that give us the, that are United States assets.”
Fielding: Putting a satellite in space costs less than attorney paperwork fees
“I can put a satellite in space for less than I can pay our attorneys to do the paperwork.”
Fielding: Privateer plans to offer space tracking tools for free
“We aim to democratize the space situational awareness market. By bringing these tools to humankind for free, by enabling and empowering the community so that we have a single source of truth and knowledge, and we're not aiming to own it.”
Fielding: Privateer is launching its own satellite constellation
“For that we're putting up a constellation of our own satellites, which I hope doesn't sound too hypocritical.”
Fielding: Space traffic control should be a government service
“Space situational awareness and domain awareness and traffic management and ultimately traffic control. Becoming services that actually should be provided by governments that have traditionally only been provided by private industry.”
Jah: Expecting space to remain free of malicious behavior is ridiculous
“I mean, to think that if you see on lands with banditry and on the seas with piracy and all this other stuff even planes get hijacked to think that space is this benevolent, everybody's having pillow fights and tickling each other is ridiculous.”
Jah: Inferring intent from satellite capability risks escalatory space conflict
“People are using prejudice to just get rid of that uncertainty. And they're saying, Hey, if the opportunity and the capability is there, if I'm a U S satellite and there's a Chinese satellite that is in the same orbit, not even close in the same orbit as me an…”
Fielding: Privateer launches satellites because operators refuse open data sharing
“If everyone wanted to share in space and wanted to do what we were doing, we wouldn't have to launch any of our own satellites. We could just ask them, why don't you just give us access to your stuff and we'll give access to the entire community. But it doesn'…”
Fielding: Roscosmos cosmonauts were unaware of 2021 Russian ASAT test
“The cosmonauts from Roscosmos that were aboard the space station at the time, they had no damn idea that their government was going to blow up an asset and put them and the world in peril.”
Fielding: Space situational awareness is not a true commercial market
“If you look at this marketplace that some people would put privateer in the bucket of space situational awareness and domain awareness and traffic management, I would argue it's not a market. Because the commercial companies that are there, they don't make a g…”
Fielding: Space traffic control will soon resemble air traffic control
“And ultimately if enforcement does occur, which I think it's bound to occur soon, it has to occur soon. You'll start to see space traffic control be very akin to air traffic control.”
Fielding: 80% of space launches in 2021 were commercial, not government
“Now that we are in a commercial space environment where 80% of the things that went up last year were commercial versus government, that's a flip. Most of my lifetime, the things that went up most years were 80% government, and you'd be lucky to find 20% comme…”
Fielding: Commercial space spending will surpass government spending very soon
“Now, the dollars haven't shifted yet, right? The government's still outspending the commercial sector because of all of those things, the war machine and intelligence gathering and defense. But that's gonna change very, very, very soon. It's bound to, because …”