Nov 12, 2024 · 59m · a16z
Trump is About to Change Everything For Tech Startups
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of The Ben & Marc Show, venture capitalists Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz analyze the post-2024 U.S. presidential election landscape, detailing how shifting regulatory policies will impact tech startups, artificial intelligence, cryptocurrency, energy, and national defense.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 1.8 Guest teaching 2.9 Guest disagreement 2.7 The host pushing back 0.0
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:30 Ben rejecting SEC's consumer protection claims
Ben aggressively reframes the SEC's crypto crackdown as a lie, arguing they targeted compliant US startups while ignoring wild scams to deliberately destroy industry trust.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 32:00 Marc posing the critique that tech founders want total lawlessnessMarc raises the standard counterargument that tech leaders simply want lawlessness and zero regulation, forcing Ben to articulate their actual position on sensible regulatory oversight.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:20 Ben explaining Operation Choke Point 2.0 tacticsBen breaks down the historical precedent of Operation Choke Point 1.0 against weed and guns and educates on how regulators applied FDIC pressure on banks to cut off fintech and crypto startups.
The host holds their own ▶ 48:20 Marc citing Ezra Klein's NYT critique and CHIPS Act statsMarc demonstrates deep policy knowledge by referencing Ezra Klein's concept of 'everything bagel liberalism' and citing the exact 0.4% disbursement stat for the $40B+ CHIPS Act.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Episode Framing and Post-Election Overview | 0 | 2 | 3 | 0 | Marc and Ben open the podcast with a friendly post-election overview, lamenting the Biden administration's tech policies without any internal pushback or disagreement. | |
| Mechanics of Debanking and Choke Point 2.0 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 0 | Marc prompts Ben to explain how Operation Choke Point 2.0 works to kick crypto startups out of the banking system. Ben details the FDIC's extra-legal pressure tactics in an agreeable exchange. | |
| Market Reactions and Learned Helplessness Relief | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0 | Ben and Marc marvel at the immediate stock and crypto market rallies following the election, describing the psychological relief as a feeling of learned helplessness ending. | |
| Anarcho-Tyranny and Selective Government Enforcement | 2 | 3 | 4 | 0 | Marc introduces the concept of anarcho-tyranny to describe government overregulation of compliant businesses, while Ben illustrates the absurdity with an anecdote about FBI raids on Amish farms for selling raw milk. | |
| Political Engagement and Fairshake Super PAC Results | 1 | 3 | 2 | 0 | Ben recounts the success of the Fairshake Super PAC in backing pro-crypto candidates from both parties, sharing how even Democratic leaders like Wes Moore were shocked by the administration's aggressive anti-tech posture. | |
| Shift to Permanent Non-Partisan Tech Advocacy | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | Marc lays out an extensive historical argument that technological leadership underpins economic and military supremacy, framing the US-China rivalry as a new Cold War requiring strong pro-tech leadership. | |
| Crypto Sector Revival and Creator Economics | 2 | 3 | 2 | 0 | Ben describes how crypto platform revival enables creator economics and solves AI bot verification via projects like Worldcoin, while Marc lightheartedly shares an LLM prompt trick. | |
| Sensible Market Regulation, FIT21, and Equity | 1 | 4 | 3 | 0 | Ben argues forcefully for sensible regulation like the FIT21 bill, praising 71 brave House Democrats who defied White House veto threats to support market structure clarity. | |
| AI Policy, Regulatory Capture, and Energy Bottlenecks | 2 | 4 | 4 | 0 | Ben warns against big tech incumbents using precautionary principle safety arguments to achieve regulatory capture, comparing it to search engines in 1997 trying to lock out future competitors like Google. | |
| Geopolitical Energy Security and Nuclear Power | 3 | 3 | 3 | 0 | Marc outlines the history of US nuclear regulation since 1971, criticizing the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for blocking new nuclear plant approvals for over 40 years while Ben contrasts this with France's nuclear energy independence. | |
| Semiconductor Onshoring and Fixing the CHIPS Act | 4 | 3 | 3 | 0 | Marc cites Ezra Klein's concept of 'everything bagel liberalism' to explain why the Biden administration disbursed only 0.4% of CHIPS Act funds, while Ben compares America's bureaucratic gridlock with Japan's swift fab construction. | |
| Defense Technology, Drone Warfare, and Procurement | 3 | 4 | 4 | 0 | Marc and Ben analyze how archaic cost-plus procurement rules and FAA restrictions have left US defense tech behind in drone warfare, forcing American soldiers to carry Chinese-made drones. | |
| Conclusion and Future Outlook for Tech | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Marc and Ben wrap up the episode with an optimistic outlook for tech innovation under the new landscape. |
Statements from this episode (36)
Andreessen: Trump's 2024 victory lifted regulatory 'boot off the throat' for tech
“So I felt like a boot off the throat. Like every morning I wake up happier than the day before because all of these forms of repression that I just had gotten used to. You're under this level of repression for this long. When it's relieved, it takes you a litt…”
Andreessen: Politics impacted tech more from 2020 to 2024 than ever before
“Politics in the last four years have had a much bigger impact on, on the tech industry than, Certainly any other period in my life.”
Horowitz: Biden administration was the worst for tech in his career
“It was probably the, I think Unarguably the worst four years in our career in terms of White House policy as it related to technology and, you know, probably to business more broadly.”
Horowitz: South Korea has double the crypto usage of the US
“Korea, which is a very small country by comparison has doubled the crypto usage as us.”
Horowitz: DOJ sued Musk for refugee discrimination despite federal citizen-only mandates
“The DOJ suing him for discriminating against refugees when he had a contract with the US government that required he only hire citizens.”
Horowitz: Dozens of a16z portfolio companies were debanked under Choke Point 2.0
“And we had, you know, dozens of companies kicked out of the banking system simply for In a very legally compliant way trying to build a company, you know, that would, you know, employ people and, you know, make the country strong.”
Andreessen: Government debanking of tech startups is extra-legal and unconstitutional
“So yeah, so it's basically a, the way I think about the debanking is it's a sort of an extra legal, unconstitutional you know, completely outside the bounds of any law or constitutional provision. It's the government. Applying pressure. The government regulato…”
Horowitz: Post-2024 election stock market gain was fifth largest in history
“Within literally 24 hours of him getting elected, the stock market had its biggest, its fifth biggest day in history.”
Horowitz: Regulators targeted compliant crypto firms while ignoring fraudulent meme coins
“One of the really remarkable things about the whole crypto crackdown was, you know, the claim, the lie, and it was clearly a lie, and I'll explain why, was that, oh, we have to protect consumers. But as they were, you know, basically terrorizing every complian…”
Andreessen: Cities over-regulate ice cream parlors while giving violent addicts free reign
“If you're a violent, you know, drug addict, you have free reign. On the streets, and if you're going to open up an ice cream parlor, like God help you know, they're going to regulate you.”
Horowitz: Amish voted Trump because Biden administration raided raw milk farms
“The Amish decided to come out and vote for Trump because the Biden administration, and this is so wild, like, raided their farms because they were selling unpasteurized milk.”
Horowitz: Grand theft auto is no longer a felony in major cities
“Grand Theft Auto, Is not actually a crime in any major city anymore, unless like it's a crime if it's, you know, some huge auto ring, but like if it's just stealing a car, like if I steal a car and I just like ride it around, smash it into the wall or whatever…”
Horowitz: Crypto Super PAC Fairshake won 52 of 58 Congressional races
“This time, so fair shake was 52 and six which is.”
Horowitz: Sherrod Brown led Bernie Moreno by 10 points before Fairshake intervened
“In Ohio Sherrod Brown was, you know, over 10 points ahead when we started against Bernie Moreno. And Bernie was able to take him out.”
Horowitz: SEC, CFPB, and Biden administration refused to meet with a16z
“They would never meet with us. You know, the SEC won't meet with us. The CFPB won't meet with us. The Biden you know, Biden won't meet with us.”
Andreessen: a16z will permanently maintain an active political advocacy role
“So my conclusion is this has to be a permanent, this has to be a permanent role that we play. Like we have to stay present and there will be some phases of the moon in which the sort of, you know, the tides are on our side and there will be some phases of the …”
Horowitz: Tech policies shifted immediately in anticipation of Trump presidency
“And, you know, and it's proving out instantaneously, which I did not expect. I figured, you know, you'd have to go. And then actually change the policies, but the policies are just changing in anticipation.”
Andreessen: The US and China are in a new bipolar Cold War
“And I at least believe the 21st century is basically going to be another version of that, and it so happens that we're back in a bipolar world, and we have the US and the Communist Party of China which is sort of, you know, USSR two point oh, and they have a m…”
Horowitz: Nas earned more from a song NFT than his Grammy-winning album
“My friend Nas put out a, an NFT of a song that, you know, had been out, that the album won the Grammy, and the song NFT, you know, made more money than the album even though it came out late.”
Horowitz: Half the population of Buenos Aires uses Worldcoin
“Half the people in Buenos Aires use them.”
Andreessen: FIT21 crypto bill passed House with 71 Democratic votes
“The Fit-Twenty-One bill passed through the House with all but three Republicans voting for it. 71 Democrats voting for it.”
Horowitz: African Americans overindex in crypto ownership relative to other assets
“And in fact, if you look at the African American population, there's one asset class that they over index in and it's blockchain crypto.”
Horowitz: Current AI is math and automation, not sentient or self-improving
“Right now it's a lot of math. It's doing some neat automation stuff. It is absolutely not sentient. It's not self-improving.”
Horowitz: Current AI market resembles internet search in 1997
“The companies are very big, but the moats aren't very wide. So the way to think about it, it's like we're basically at search in the, on the internet circa, 1997, when there were 37 search companies, none of them called Google.”
Horowitz: Energy and cooling are the next major AI bottlenecks
“There are bottlenecks that are moving around. So there's a data bottleneck. Now it's going to be followed by an energy bottleneck. You know, it started with a chip bottleneck, you know, then we went to data bottleneck, then there'll be an energy bottleneck, pr…”
Andreessen: Europe funds Russia's war by importing gas after closing nuclear plants
“Europe is effectively funding the Russian war machine by purchasing Russian gas. And the reason they need to purchase Russian gas is because they stopped developing their own gas and they have been shutting down their own nuclear plants.”
Horowitz: Solving climate change requires technology, not policy
“The right solve is technological. It's not actually policy but policy can destroy the technological answers.”
Andreessen: NRC went over 40 years without approving new nuclear plant construction
“The Nuclear Regulatory Commission did not did not authorize a new nuclear plant developed for 40 years, over 40 years.”
Andreessen: a16z is actively investing in a potential nuclear energy renaissance
“There's a real opportunity with this administration for a nuclear renaissance that at least we would be, we're already investing into, but we would be super excited to invest into.”
Andreessen: Less than 0.4% of CHIPS Act funding has been disbursed
“As of today, they have only literally dispersed 0.4% of the chip sacks money to any of these companies.”
Andreessen: CHIPS Act money is stalled due to added political requirements
“The money has not been dispersed because the deal keeps getting renegotiated to add new political requirements.”
Horowitz: Japan built semiconductor fabs while US CHIPS Act stalled
“Japan also kind of had this deal to, you know, their chip sack version. And they're off to the races. They built the fab.”
Horowitz: Major tech and pharma CEOs couldn't get Biden administration meetings
“It's like every major, you talk to any major tech CEO of the biggest companies in the world of the, you know the biggest pharma companies in the world, none of them could get meetings with this administration.”
Andreessen: The country winning the drone war will have the best military
“The country that wins the drone war and the technology war underneath that is going to have the best military.”