Apr 30, 2025 · 27m · a16z

Biotech CEO on where we are in the fight to cure cancer

Jonathan Lim · 19m spoken Jorge Conde · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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In this episode of the a16z podcast Raising Health, host Jorge Conde interviews physician-turned-entrepreneur Dr. Jonathan Lim about his leadership in biotechnology, novel cancer therapies targeting the RAS pathway, and the surprising parallels between drug development and film production.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 1.4 The host pushing back 1.4
05100:0010:0020:000:14–4:23 · The host as informed peer 2/10 From Surgeon to Biotech CEO: The Halozyme Story The host guides the interview through the guest's career shift from surgeon to McKinsey consultant and early startup CEO. The tone is casual and conversational, with the guest humbly explaining his early lack of biotech knowledge.4:23–7:42 · The host as informed peer 3/10 City Hill Ventures and Entrepreneurial Biotechs The guest outlines current progress in cancer treatments, highlighting checkpoint inhibitors, long tail survival curves, and antibody-drug conjugates like Enhertu. The host prompts with open-ended framing while the guest delivers technical context.7:42–10:19 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Deciphering Cancer Genetics and ecDNA The host presents a simplified straw-man hypothesis about genetic sequencing solving cancer. The guest reframes this by educating the host on extra-chromosomal DNA (ecDNA) and circular chromosomal structures driving resistance.10:19–16:09 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Next-Generation Modalities for Undruggable Targets The guest explains novel molecular glues and cyclophilin A binders targeting GTP active state RAS, admitting his prior personal skepticism before seeing data. The discussion transitions into an anecdotal story about Galapagos wildlife adaptation.16:09–20:38 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Pivoting Pipelines and Strategic Capital Discipline The guest shares startup strategy and capital discipline, describing how Araska pivoted pipelines and preserved cash following its public offering. The host asks targeted questions about founder adaptations during market shifts.20:38–24:37 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Venturing into Hollywood: Founding City Hill Arts The host playfully explores the guest's venture into Hollywood film production with City Hill Arts. The guest outlines the production details and puppet-to-CGI breakdown for his penguin feature film.24:37–27:17 · The host as informed peer 5/10 Parallels Between Biotech and Film Production The host proactively identifies structural parallels between biotech drug development and movie production around hit dependence and development hell. The guest confirms the comparison with industry timelines and statistics.0:14–4:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 From Surgeon to Biotech CEO: The Halozyme Story The host guides the interview through the guest's career shift from surgeon to McKinsey consultant and early startup CEO. The tone is casual and conversational, with the guest humbly explaining his early lack of biotech knowledge.4:23–7:42 · Guest teaching 4/10 City Hill Ventures and Entrepreneurial Biotechs The guest outlines current progress in cancer treatments, highlighting checkpoint inhibitors, long tail survival curves, and antibody-drug conjugates like Enhertu. The host prompts with open-ended framing while the guest delivers technical context.7:42–10:19 · Guest teaching 6/10 Deciphering Cancer Genetics and ecDNA The host presents a simplified straw-man hypothesis about genetic sequencing solving cancer. The guest reframes this by educating the host on extra-chromosomal DNA (ecDNA) and circular chromosomal structures driving resistance.10:19–16:09 · Guest teaching 5/10 Next-Generation Modalities for Undruggable Targets The guest explains novel molecular glues and cyclophilin A binders targeting GTP active state RAS, admitting his prior personal skepticism before seeing data. The discussion transitions into an anecdotal story about Galapagos wildlife adaptation.16:09–20:38 · Guest teaching 5/10 Pivoting Pipelines and Strategic Capital Discipline The guest shares startup strategy and capital discipline, describing how Araska pivoted pipelines and preserved cash following its public offering. The host asks targeted questions about founder adaptations during market shifts.20:38–24:37 · Guest teaching 4/10 Venturing into Hollywood: Founding City Hill Arts The host playfully explores the guest's venture into Hollywood film production with City Hill Arts. The guest outlines the production details and puppet-to-CGI breakdown for his penguin feature film.24:37–27:17 · Guest teaching 5/10 Parallels Between Biotech and Film Production The host proactively identifies structural parallels between biotech drug development and movie production around hit dependence and development hell. The guest confirms the comparison with industry timelines and statistics.0:14–4:23 · Guest disagreement 1/10 From Surgeon to Biotech CEO: The Halozyme Story The host guides the interview through the guest's career shift from surgeon to McKinsey consultant and early startup CEO. The tone is casual and conversational, with the guest humbly explaining his early lack of biotech knowledge.4:23–7:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 City Hill Ventures and Entrepreneurial Biotechs The guest outlines current progress in cancer treatments, highlighting checkpoint inhibitors, long tail survival curves, and antibody-drug conjugates like Enhertu. The host prompts with open-ended framing while the guest delivers technical context.7:42–10:19 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Deciphering Cancer Genetics and ecDNA The host presents a simplified straw-man hypothesis about genetic sequencing solving cancer. The guest reframes this by educating the host on extra-chromosomal DNA (ecDNA) and circular chromosomal structures driving resistance.10:19–16:09 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Next-Generation Modalities for Undruggable Targets The guest explains novel molecular glues and cyclophilin A binders targeting GTP active state RAS, admitting his prior personal skepticism before seeing data. The discussion transitions into an anecdotal story about Galapagos wildlife adaptation.16:09–20:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pivoting Pipelines and Strategic Capital Discipline The guest shares startup strategy and capital discipline, describing how Araska pivoted pipelines and preserved cash following its public offering. The host asks targeted questions about founder adaptations during market shifts.20:38–24:37 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Venturing into Hollywood: Founding City Hill Arts The host playfully explores the guest's venture into Hollywood film production with City Hill Arts. The guest outlines the production details and puppet-to-CGI breakdown for his penguin feature film.24:37–27:17 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Parallels Between Biotech and Film Production The host proactively identifies structural parallels between biotech drug development and movie production around hit dependence and development hell. The guest confirms the comparison with industry timelines and statistics.0:14–4:23 · The host pushing back 2/10 From Surgeon to Biotech CEO: The Halozyme Story The host guides the interview through the guest's career shift from surgeon to McKinsey consultant and early startup CEO. The tone is casual and conversational, with the guest humbly explaining his early lack of biotech knowledge.4:23–7:42 · The host pushing back 1/10 City Hill Ventures and Entrepreneurial Biotechs The guest outlines current progress in cancer treatments, highlighting checkpoint inhibitors, long tail survival curves, and antibody-drug conjugates like Enhertu. The host prompts with open-ended framing while the guest delivers technical context.7:42–10:19 · The host pushing back 3/10 Deciphering Cancer Genetics and ecDNA The host presents a simplified straw-man hypothesis about genetic sequencing solving cancer. The guest reframes this by educating the host on extra-chromosomal DNA (ecDNA) and circular chromosomal structures driving resistance.10:19–16:09 · The host pushing back 1/10 Next-Generation Modalities for Undruggable Targets The guest explains novel molecular glues and cyclophilin A binders targeting GTP active state RAS, admitting his prior personal skepticism before seeing data. The discussion transitions into an anecdotal story about Galapagos wildlife adaptation.16:09–20:38 · The host pushing back 1/10 Pivoting Pipelines and Strategic Capital Discipline The guest shares startup strategy and capital discipline, describing how Araska pivoted pipelines and preserved cash following its public offering. The host asks targeted questions about founder adaptations during market shifts.20:38–24:37 · The host pushing back 1/10 Venturing into Hollywood: Founding City Hill Arts The host playfully explores the guest's venture into Hollywood film production with City Hill Arts. The guest outlines the production details and puppet-to-CGI breakdown for his penguin feature film.24:37–27:17 · The host pushing back 1/10 Parallels Between Biotech and Film Production The host proactively identifies structural parallels between biotech drug development and movie production around hit dependence and development hell. The guest confirms the comparison with industry timelines and statistics.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:40 Guest expresses strong initial skepticism

The guest openly challenges the initial premise that wild-type RAS could be targeted, noting he was extremely skeptical until forced to yield to convincing data.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 7:43 Host challenges genetic premise with straw-man argument

The host sets up a deliberate counter-framing, questioning whether sequencing alone should theoretically allow us to work backwards and defeat all cancers.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:24 Guest reveals unknown ecDNA mechanisms

The guest educates the host on circular extra-chromosomal DNA, explaining a key mechanism of oncogene amplification that most of the industry was previously unaware of.

The host holds their own ▶ 24:37 Host connects hit-driven dynamic across industries

The host demonstrates sharp industry intuition by directly connecting upfront capital risks, development hell, and reliance on hits between film and biotech.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
From Surgeon to Biotech CEO: The Halozyme Story 2312 The host guides the interview through the guest's career shift from surgeon to McKinsey consultant and early startup CEO. The tone is casual and conversational, with the guest humbly explaining his early lack of biotech knowledge.
City Hill Ventures and Entrepreneurial Biotechs 3411 The guest outlines current progress in cancer treatments, highlighting checkpoint inhibitors, long tail survival curves, and antibody-drug conjugates like Enhertu. The host prompts with open-ended framing while the guest delivers technical context.
Deciphering Cancer Genetics and ecDNA 4633 The host presents a simplified straw-man hypothesis about genetic sequencing solving cancer. The guest reframes this by educating the host on extra-chromosomal DNA (ecDNA) and circular chromosomal structures driving resistance.
Next-Generation Modalities for Undruggable Targets 3521 The guest explains novel molecular glues and cyclophilin A binders targeting GTP active state RAS, admitting his prior personal skepticism before seeing data. The discussion transitions into an anecdotal story about Galapagos wildlife adaptation.
Pivoting Pipelines and Strategic Capital Discipline 4511 The guest shares startup strategy and capital discipline, describing how Araska pivoted pipelines and preserved cash following its public offering. The host asks targeted questions about founder adaptations during market shifts.
Venturing into Hollywood: Founding City Hill Arts 3401 The host playfully explores the guest's venture into Hollywood film production with City Hill Arts. The guest outlines the production details and puppet-to-CGI breakdown for his penguin feature film.
Parallels Between Biotech and Film Production 5521 The host proactively identifies structural parallels between biotech drug development and movie production around hit dependence and development hell. The guest confirms the comparison with industry timelines and statistics.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Supported
Halozyme had three months of cash and zero VC funding in 2003
“So we had Three months of cash on hand, a company that had zero VC dollars invested.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 3:00
Prediction Held up
Halozyme guides to $1 billion in revenue in coming years
“Which now Halozyme is guiding to about a billion dollar in revenue in the next few years.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 4:12
Assertion Supported
Checkpoint inhibitors achieve long-term cures in roughly 20% of patients
“Especially with the checkpoint inhibitors where you see the long tail. So you see about 20% of patients that have long term remission that, that actually turns into cures.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 6:50
Assertion Supported
Lim: ADC Drug Enhertu Has Reached Five Cancer Indications
“Whether it's the, some of the ADCs, like Inheritu, where you see just remarkable long-term survival outcomes OS and PFS with in breast cancer, and now they're in five different indications, including tissue agnostic.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 7:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Extrachromosomal DNA was an unknown cancer driver until recent discoveries
“Most of the industry didn't even know that this circular chromosomal DNA was a mechanism for driving cancer as well as metastases and recurrence until Paul Michel and others identified this and developed diagnostics to look for it.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 8:42
Assertion Supported
Erasca claims its ERAS-15 molecular glue outperforms Revolution Medicines' RMC-6236
“And so we actually have our own cyclophiline A molecular glue called ERAS 15 that we just in-licensed, and we're really excited about that with Even higher potency than RMC six two three six”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 11:17
Disclosure
Lim admits skepticism on targeting wild-type RAS until RevMed proved it
“Until RevMed showed that that you could target RAS wild type. I actually was very skeptical that we'd be able to do that. But then when I saw the data, I was just amazed that this was safe and reasonably well tolerated.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 11:35
Assertion Partly supported
Lim: U.S. NRAS mutant melanoma patient population is roughly 50,000
“NRAS mutant melanoma, there's about 50,000 patients total in, in the U.S.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 16:23
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Biotech funding cycle has shifted away from platforms back to products
“I think the pendulum always swings back and forth between platforms and products and back again. I think we're back in the product cycle”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 19:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lim: My Penguin Friend was shot 80% with real penguins
“So about 80% of the movie is shot with real penguins. You can't put penguins in peril though. So 15% is with CGI and then five percent is with puppets or animatronics.”
Jonathan Lim Apr 30, 2025 ▶ 23:44
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