The Exchanges

Q Do we bring other disciplines in? So they do the case study, they impress. Do we bring head of product engineering, see how does that work in terms of who we bring in?

A Yes, absolutely. And, uh, and what I actually have done in the past and, uh, is have a panel. So not just have them like, you know, write out a case or whatever, but have a, a, A small panel where they actually present their work, uh, and where you bring the cross-functional leaders in, uh, and you can ask them, you know, questions, see how they react, uh, to, you know, on the spot thinking, as well as how they react to feedback, and, and you learn a lot about, you know, how this person works. You know, the main thing, and we use the term, probably overuse it, growth mindset, uh, in the tech world, but I think it's like, especially critical for, for somebody in, in growth. Uh, to be nimble, uh, in their thinking, uh, and, uh, and be open to new information and creative, so.

AI assessment note: “Yes, absolutely. And, uh, and what I actually have done in the past”

Q I mean, it slightly goes back to culture in terms of making them feel safe enough to feel like they can be challenged and that they are safe. And you said before on culture, culture matters more than all structure when it comes to growth. What did you mean by this? And how does that impact how you lead and operate today?

A I think a lot of companies, and we've had some of this conversation earlier here as well, Hem and Ha bit on like, what should the structure of growth be? Like which functions should report in there? Should it be solid? Should it be dotted? Where should Should product go over? Should life cycle marketing go over? Should analytics go? Um, et cetera. And, uh, and yes, those are important questions that eventually you might want to solve them, uh, as the company gets much bigger. Um, but to me, what matters more culturally is that all of these functions, uh, are actually driving towards the same outcome and have the same culture of speed, uh, comfort with failure, uh, and same mechanisms of, uh, of working. I think if you have that, I think the reporting structure, uh, becomes less important.

AI assessment note: “what matters more culturally is that all of these functions, uh, are actually driving towards the same outcome”

Q think the best growth and marketing leaders are actually very much like VCs. Place many bets, analyze what works, doubles down efficiently. So I totally agree with you there. I do have to ask, you mentioned Opendoor, you mentioned Instacart, two incredible companies. If you were to think about one or two big takeaways and how they impacted your mindset from each, what would you say they would be, Sri?

A Yeah, uh, one lesson and experience that I remember vividly from my time at Opendoor, for those of Uh, folks that know the market is, you know, Opendoor was the leader in the space called iBuying, buying and selling homes, and Zillow, the largest player, you know, in real estate, had entered our market, uh, in, in 2017, as you can imagine, uh, that had some impact on our growth because they entered the exact same markets that we were in, and we at Opendoor had a choice to make, um, which was, do we price compete? Do we price match, uh, Zillow to acquire customers if Zillow is bidding higher on homes or, or not? And, uh, and it was a really tough decision, and, uh, and something I learned from that process is sticking to your conviction if you've arrived at it on a first principles basis, even if it gets tough. So what we decided at Opendoor is our biggest asset in competitive mode is the ability to price accurately, and we're not going to compromise that for, uh, short-term growth, and, and we stuck to our guns. We never did a price match, uh, and we never negotiated, uh, on price with sellers of homes. Lo and behold, we were right longer term in the sense that Zillow eventually lost their shirt and exited the market a few years before the market crash, right? So they, they left a while still in a peak, uh, real estate market. So I'm proud of that decision. Uh, but you know, it…

AI assessment note: “something I learned from that process is sticking to your conviction if you've arrived”

Q I would love you to give me a very precise at 4.3 million. Okay. So, so say we find that tipping point where we need it. Do we hire a junior analyst who is super analytical and smart and hustles and experiments? Or do we hire a growth leader? Which role is the right to hire for?

A A growth leader is helpful when you have, um, multiple Like quote unquote programs that are starting to show work. So when I say programs, I mean, you've spent a little bit on paid marketing. It seems like it's working. You've got potentially somebody full-time working on paid marketing or thinking about it. Uh, and, uh, and you've, you know, you've got some initial, uh, traction on product-led growth or, or, or what have you is when I would say you start looking for that, like, You know, director plus, uh, level of, uh, of person. The early days of growth can be managed by In my opinion, a lot of different types of people. I actually really liked the biz ops profile, uh, for the early days until you're like ready to really put some gas, uh, on the fire and, and, you know, hire a VP. But I think what's great about growth is that it's truly a cross-disciplinary field. And so I actually think people that are generalists, uh, do a lot better than hiring a specialist early on.

AI assessment note: “generalists, uh, do a lot better than hiring a specialist early on.”

Q I mean, it slightly goes back to culture in terms of making them feel safe enough to feel like they can be challenged and that they are safe. And you said before on culture, culture matters more than all structure when it comes to growth. What did you mean by this? And how does that impact how you lead and operate today?

A I think a lot of companies, and we've had some of this conversation earlier here as well, Hem and Ha bit on like, what should the structure of growth be? Like which functions should report in there? Should it be solid? Should it be dotted? Where should Should product go over? Should life cycle marketing go over? Should analytics go? Um, et cetera. And, uh, and yes, those are important questions that eventually you might want to solve them, uh, as the company gets much bigger. Um, but to me, what matters more culturally is that all of these functions, uh, are actually driving towards the same outcome and have the same culture of speed, uh, comfort with failure, uh, and same mechanisms of, uh, of working. I think if you have that, I think the reporting structure, uh, becomes less important.

AI assessment note: “what matters more culturally is that all of these functions, uh, are actually driving”

Q I actually agree with you totally, but I get killed for being exclusionary. What if it's someone who doesn't know anyone in your ecosystem? Is that fair? And what do you, what should I respond?

A I think it's a fair question, but, uh, fortunately, uh, I think there are a lot more, uh, Systems available now to help with that, that are not as gatekeeping on deck is here. There's a few other networks like that. I don't think it's actually like for the entrepreneurial person, it's that hard to find a path, uh, to meeting the right set of investors. And it just depends on how friendly people are, right? Like if somebody messages me, uh, with a tenuous connection, I'm typically willing to help them, right? Like if they're like, uh, you know, um, Hey, like, uh, I went to the same college as you, blah, blah, blah. Like, will you take a meeting? Maybe. But if they're like, hey, I really want to get to know this person. Will you intro me? And obviously I do a dual opt-in. I'll message them being like, hey, like, I don't really know this person. Their profile seems interesting. I haven't really evaluated. Let me know if you'd be open to taking a convo. Uh, and even if they spray and pray with that tactic, they will get some meetings via warm intro. So you got to hustle somewhat. Uh, I think there's a way to get the warm intro, and if you can't even do that, uh, I, I, I struggle to find out you're gonna fundraise, find customers, et cetera.

AI assessment note: “for the entrepreneurial person, it's that hard to find a path”

Q Does it not distract you from your operational role? I get it that it helps you pick better, but on the flip side, does it make you distracted?

A No, it's a, it's a great question. Uh, and, uh, you know, uh, some principles are universal, right? Which is everything in moderation. And also you have to be doing well at your core job before you're doing stuff outside of work. You, uh, want to be respectful of, uh, obviously work hours. Um, having said that the other great thing too, is like, I, I get a lot of high quality deal flow. I know I'm, I'm a, I'm actually very anti cold outreach. Uh, I know it's, uh, a lot of investors go out there and say, cold outreach is great. You send me, you know, a message on LinkedIn or Twitter or whatever. And, uh, and I'll look at everything. My theory is if you can't even succeed in getting a warm intro, how are you going to hustle and building a company? I only take conversations that are very high reputation, warm intros, where the person is, like, typically, like, already spoken to the person, likes them, or has a relationship with them, and I have a deck, so I, I don't take, I take very few meetings, uh, but I tend to find that they're very high quality because I do a lot of that filtering before.

AI assessment note: “I take very few meetings, uh, but I tend to find that they're very high quality”

Q What are the first things to break in a scaling org? You've been in some of the best. Instacart, Opendoor now, Ramp. What are the like the, ah, fuck, it broke again.

A The thing that breaks, uh, is, uh, is, is really just culture and engagement, actually, uh, as this companies grow, right? So let's imagine that you're not successful as you're scaling. Obviously people are going to be demotivated and, and, and whatever. So that one's obvious. But I think the thing that people miss is, um, if you are successful, uh, I think a lot of, um, you know, founders and executives can take, you know, the growth engine and the team, uh, for, for granted. And I think if you're not continuing to provide kind of guidance, feedback, gratitude, uh, the team will get burned out and disengaged and, and you'll see departures. So that, that's the one thing that I tend to find is like the danger of success is that, uh, the teams that drove that, uh, get taken for granted often, uh, because, you know, people want to focus on problems, not the things that are working, uh, and, uh, and so, uh, that can create its own challenges.

AI assessment note: “The thing that breaks, uh, is, uh, is, is really just culture and engagement”

Q How do you do that? Do you ask the one-to-one questions ever?

A Usually, uh, the, the networks here aren't so big. Right. Especially with some of these referrals that I, uh, so it's, it's funny, actually, this is one of the most valuable things that I can do that I do for my founders. And that's helpful for me as well, which is founders are trying to hire and they are like, okay, like between the companies that I've worked at, I've worked with hundreds, possibly thousands of people at this point. Right. Um, and, uh, and, and so they're like, okay, I'm looking to hire this person. I have no idea if they're good or not. Their LinkedIn and their resume seems reasonable. We've done the interview process, which is, you know, always imperfect, right? Uh, and so they're like, Hey, can you actually, like, have you worked with this person, or can you get me to somebody that's worked closely with them, that'll give me an honest read, uh, because, uh, the, the relationships, or, or, or what have you. That's, like, incredibly valuable, and I think, like, having that reputation of somebody that's direct, keeps things confidential, uh, and, uh, and is available, uh, is, is helpful in a variety of different ways, uh, and I, I use that to try to find people You know, where I have questions on, ah, on getting some more comfort on the diligence side.

AI assessment note: “can you get me to somebody that's worked closely with them, that'll give me an honest read”

Q Sorry. I'm fascinated by that. So first day you and me sit down and we go through this, like two page, one-to-one questions. What are some examples of those questions again? And then what do we do on the back of them? Why do we do them?

A I tend to find that it really builds, uh, a, like a relationship and an understanding of each other, which, uh, to be honest, so maybe I'll, I'll say it in a different way, which is when things aren't working, I think it's very rarely, uh, because someone is a bad actor. Uh, it's, it's usually because they're not a right fit for this role because either they lack the skills or they lack the motivation, right? The skill gap is an easy one to have the conversation about and move somebody out into a different role or, you know, talk about their transition out. I think the motivation gap, uh, is one that's a little bit harder to solve and you solve it by actually understanding what motivates the person, uh, and finding ways of motivating them, uh, before, you know, taking more drastic action. And so to have a high performing team, I think you really need to understand what drives the individuals. And what drives everybody is probably not profit for the company. Maybe it is for some, uh, but, uh, every person has their individual motivations that they work through, and that's the main thing that I try to get out of, uh, in the first one-on-one.

AI assessment note: “that's the main thing that I try to get out of, uh, in the first one-on-one.”

Q I spoke to Evan Moore and he said specifically you're one of the best managers he's ever seen. When you reflect on that statement, what do you think makes you such a good manager and what have been your biggest lessons on great management?

A Yeah, I think Evan is being too kind, but, but I appreciate the sentiment. Um, I, uh, I think management, like a lot of things is actually, um, pretty easy to learn and, uh, and hard to master. It's not rocket science. The, the rules on what makes a good manager. What's, what's hard is actually remembering it and, you know, putting it in practice every day. I think it requires intention. Fortune of working with a bunch of great, great managers, uh, and executives closely, including Avin. Uh, and, uh, and I think what a lot of executives forget, especially as they get more senior, is that they're, they're still a manager. Like you do have a management part of your job to, to do.

AI assessment note: “What's, what's hard is actually remembering it and, you know, putting it in practice”

Q I spoke to Evan Moore and he said specifically you're one of the best managers he's ever seen. When you reflect on that statement, what do you think makes you such a good manager and what have been your biggest lessons on great management?

A Yeah, I think Evan is being too kind, but, but I appreciate the sentiment. Um, I, uh, I think management, like a lot of things is actually, um, pretty easy to learn and, uh, and hard to master. It's not rocket science. The, the rules on what makes a good manager. What's, what's hard is actually remembering it and, you know, putting it in practice every day. I think it requires intention. Fortune of working with a bunch of great, great managers, uh, and executives closely, including Avin. Uh, and, uh, and I think what a lot of executives forget, especially as they get more senior, is that they're, they're still a manager. Like you do have a management part of your job to, to do.

AI assessment note: “What's, what's hard is actually remembering it and, you know, putting it in practice”

Q Sorry. I'm fascinated by that. So first day you and me sit down and we go through this, like two page, one-to-one questions. What are some examples of those questions again? And then what do we do on the back of them? Why do we do them?

A I tend to find that it really builds, uh, a, like a relationship and an understanding of each other, which, uh, to be honest, so maybe I'll, I'll say it in a different way, which is when things aren't working, I think it's very rarely, uh, because someone is a bad actor. Uh, it's, it's usually because they're not a right fit for this role because either they lack the skills or they lack the motivation, right? The skill gap is an easy one to have the conversation about and move somebody out into a different role or, you know, talk about their transition out. I think the motivation gap, uh, is one that's a little bit harder to solve and you solve it by actually understanding what motivates the person, uh, and finding ways of motivating them, uh, before, you know, taking more drastic action. And so to have a high performing team, I think you really need to understand what drives the individuals. And what drives everybody is probably not profit for the company. Maybe it is for some, uh, but, uh, every person has their individual motivations that they work through, and that's the main thing that I try to get out of, uh, in the first one-on-one.

AI assessment note: “that's the main thing that I try to get out of, uh, in the first one-on-one.”