The Exchanges

Q How, how are they adjusting? Everyone says all budgets are going back to CFOs and CFOs aren't buying technology. That's what everyone says. How are they adjusting? And do you agree with that?

A I do agree with that. The CFO in different personas, there are functions people have never even heard of that are getting involved in the sale right now. Right? So I agree with that sentiment. And I also agree that it is hard, hard stuff. But what the best sellers are doing now, and I geek out with a lot of other sellers, and what I'm finding that the best sellers are doing right now, they're revisiting their ideal customer profile. They're revisiting their target accounts, who they want to go and pursue and engage with. They're adjusting their messaging. Right? Like Harry, you and I both know growing up that there was a monster under the bed, right? We both knew that, right? And that's how many sellers talk about their problem is like, oh, there's a monster of the bed. But you know what? The better sellers, they're talking about the monster that's down the hall, Through the other door and hiding in the closet. They're teaching. They're teaching their buyer about that monster, not about the obvious monster that's under the bed. So I think the better sellers are adjusting.

AI assessment note: “I do agree with that. The CFO in different personas... what the best sellers are doing”

Q How do you maintain morale when missed goals happen? It always happens at some point. How do you maintain morale?

A First, it's not easy, but second, It's goal visualization. Celebrating these small, quick wins is very important because there are small wins that happen throughout the day. And goal visualization, reminding the team of our purpose and our mission and why we do this every day. Reminding the team of the impact that we're having in the market. As an example, Harry, over this past year, when there's a very low hiring volume that's happening right now, right? Greenhouse. We have helped over a million people Win the job of their dream by using a fair process, leveraging greenhouse software. So I remind people of really what we're building and what we're doing. We have 7000 customers and we've processed over a million offer letters through our software this year when no one's hiring. But to answer your question, don't forget the goal visualization. Yeah, we all want to make money and hit our quota, all those things, but you got to go deeper sometimes and get back to what really motivates people because not everyone's motivated by money. Shockingly.

AI assessment note: “reminding the team of our purpose and our mission and why we do this”

Q That's too good. So wait, you have someone to secure new logos. What does that mean? Like, they go out and they pull together a list of names that could be good targets, and just help me understand how that works.

A Yes. Ok, let's slow down. Uh, you have the new logo organization, and their, their, their only purpose in life is to go get more new customers. Right? So when they get an order form signed, by the way, no one's signing order forms anymore. Uh, it's digital. But when you get that order form signed, you pass it off to a customer facing team, whether that be called account management, customer success, customer support, whatever you want to call them. But these are two distinct different teams. Harry, when you have those, those roles combined, the research is profound. When you combine those roles, it doesn't work very well. So long as you have the TAM, the total addressable market, and you have, you have the green field available where you can go and secure new logos. You've got that runway. Those roles should be separated.

AI assessment note: “their only purpose in life is to go get more new customers.”

Q Do you think you need specialization on a vertical playbook basis then? Because if you can teach me more about my business, Sean, I'm either incredibly stupid or you should be leading fucking Microsoft. So, so how are you going to get smarter than me on my business?

A And it might not be about your specific business, but it could be about the investor world. And the key word that we try and use Is reframing the problem. Reframing. Right? So in your world, whether you're investing, you're looking for certain types of companies before you make an investment, whether it be LTV to CAC, whatever metrics that you're looking in. But we want to reframe it to be about something different, something you might not be thinking about. And that could be your voice internal survey results from their employees. Do they have happy employees? It could be what their customers are saying about the company you might invest in. Now I'm not, I'm not giving you an insight right now. But if I'm selling to VC firms, I talk to three VC firms in a month. And fuck me if I don't have some insight about the VC community that you might not be exposed to in the last month.

AI assessment note: “it might not be about your specific business, but it could be about the investor world”

Q How do you think about what ACV is the right level ACV for sales reps and teams to interject? Versus let them be self-serve. Like, is it above 10 K? Is it above 50 K? But then, you know, someone from, you know, a huge company come in and sign up for one seat, but it could be a, how do you determine?

A I have sellers where I prioritize, um, the SMB segment. I do, right? Because those sexy startup companies that are in Silicon Valley or in London or in Paris, wherever they are, they grow up to be enterprise customers. So I still want human engagement And that ECV is say nine, 10 K us. Like it's not all, it's not a big ticket, but those customers are still valuable. And if I just automate that whole process, which I think we're moving toward as a craft, don't get me wrong. I think we're moving there, but I'm not ready to concede to my competitors that have not automated that segment. So it's, it's tricky really depends. I don't have like a great answer of when is that moment, but let me, let me do say I am constantly looking at Automation. Different technology on how I make it easier for buyers to buy on their own, and renew on their own, and engage with our company on our, on their own. There's a lot of innovation happening with that, like, 15, 20 K-ish ACV.

AI assessment note: “So I still want human engagement And that ECV is say nine, 10 K”

Q to motivate. Like, do you know what honestly sales reps want, Sean? They want a company that's selling fast and easy. Yeah. Where you get high comp and you get good comms and the sales aren't that freaking hard. Doesn't that sound like a dream? That's what you got to job offers. One way you feel inclusive and you're empowered and another way sales are easy and comms is high.

A I don't think so, Ari. Now here's what I've learned in my journey, right? Okay. If you, let's go back to that example of attracting talent to your company. Okay. Uh, according to Forbes women that in gender neutral job posts, right? 74% of women less likely to interview, right? Now hear me out. When in that same description, uh, in the same source, if there are masculine related tasks or words, like you'll crush it, you'll dominate, like those types of words, only 55% of women will apply. Now, hold on. According to Exactly Insights, those that identify as female outperform their male counterparts by eight percent. If you, as a sales manager, Have a certain profile that you're most attracted to, right? Then that's probably who you're going to go and hire. And so when I feel as though I've perfected sales hiring, it's because I eliminate bias from the process. It's very structured. It's very intentional. It's driven by competencies.

AI assessment note: “I don't think so, Ari. Now here's what I've learned in my journey”

Q Huh? What does that mean? Like, how do you actually do that? Does that mean sales teams spend time in CS and CS in sales? Like just unpack that for me. And if I'm a founder listening, what should I do?

A No, it's, it's a great equation to go and solve for. What I'm finding now is that in customer success, you have fewer touch points with your customer and the product must sing for you at some point, of course. Right. But when you're having those customer conversations, Can you also weave in the commercial component of upsell and or cross sell? Because in customer success, you're building trust. You're building that relationship. And in some models of one of which I'm part of, and I've been part of is you have this like awkward high tension moment where a salesperson comes on and is like, but wait, I got more things for you. But to have that process a bit more, um, centralized. Is, is probably the best part. So if I'm a founder right now, you must find people that care greatly. I just saw a post by Jason Limpkin. It was spot on. Like your first few CS hires, someone that cares greatly about your product. They're passionate. They're smart and everything else will sort itself out. But if I'm a founder right now, I would think about combining those roles a bit within CS and account management, but separate that from your new logo hunters, make sure that separate it.

AI assessment note: “combining those roles a bit within CS and account management, but separate that”

Q How do you think about what ACV is the right level ACV for sales reps and teams to interject? Versus let them be self-serve. Like, is it above 10 K? Is it above 50 K? But then, you know, someone from, you know, a huge company come in and sign up for one seat, but it could be a, how do you determine?

A I have sellers where I prioritize, um, the SMB segment. I do, right? Because those sexy startup companies that are in Silicon Valley or in London or in Paris, wherever they are, they grow up to be enterprise customers. So I still want human engagement And that ECV is say nine, 10 K us. Like it's not all, it's not a big ticket, but those customers are still valuable. And if I just automate that whole process, which I think we're moving toward as a craft, don't get me wrong. I think we're moving there, but I'm not ready to concede to my competitors that have not automated that segment. So it's, it's tricky really depends. I don't have like a great answer of when is that moment, but let me, let me do say I am constantly looking at Automation. Different technology on how I make it easier for buyers to buy on their own, and renew on their own, and engage with our company on our, on their own. There's a lot of innovation happening with that, like, 15, 20 K-ish ACV.

AI assessment note: “I don't have like a great answer of when is that moment”

Q Okay, so we have three different interviews over three hours and how they just divided up, just so I understand. I'm, I'm a founder literally hiring my first salespeople. One is like competencies. What's, what are the other two?

A Yeah, so the competencies are your big buckets, okay? So let's just use, um, one big bucket as an example. Um, drive for results. Like that, that's the bucket that you're using. Then you have three questions that are related to drive for results. But you must ask each candidate the same exact questions so they have consistency across the board, right? You don't, you don't tweak those questions at all. You want to make sure that when you're testing for drive for results, like, let me give you a specific question, right? So the question that could be consistent is tell me about a time when you were told to call me back in six months. What did you do? What was your action? And then what was the result? As an example.

AI assessment note: “so the competencies are your big buckets, okay?”

Q to motivate. Like, do you know what honestly sales reps want, Sean? They want a company that's selling fast and easy. Yeah. Where you get high comp and you get good comms and the sales aren't that freaking hard. Doesn't that sound like a dream? That's what you got to job offers. One way you feel inclusive and you're empowered and another way sales are easy and comms is high.

A I don't think so, Ari. Now here's what I've learned in my journey, right? Okay. If you, let's go back to that example of attracting talent to your company. Okay. Uh, according to Forbes women that in gender neutral job posts, right? 74% of women less likely to interview, right? Now hear me out. When in that same description, uh, in the same source, if there are masculine related tasks or words, like you'll crush it, you'll dominate, like those types of words, only 55% of women will apply. Now, hold on. According to Exactly Insights, those that identify as female outperform their male counterparts by eight percent. If you, as a sales manager, Have a certain profile that you're most attracted to, right? Then that's probably who you're going to go and hire. And so when I feel as though I've perfected sales hiring, it's because I eliminate bias from the process. It's very structured. It's very intentional. It's driven by competencies.

AI assessment note: “I don't think so, Ari. Now here's what I've learned in my journey”

Q Okay, so we have three different interviews over three hours and how they just divided up, just so I understand. I'm, I'm a founder literally hiring my first salespeople. One is like competencies. What's, what are the other two?

A Yeah, so the competencies are your big buckets, okay? So let's just use, um, one big bucket as an example. Um, drive for results. Like that, that's the bucket that you're using. Then you have three questions that are related to drive for results. But you must ask each candidate the same exact questions so they have consistency across the board, right? You don't, you don't tweak those questions at all. You want to make sure that when you're testing for drive for results, like, let me give you a specific question, right? So the question that could be consistent is tell me about a time when you were told to call me back in six months. What did you do? What was your action? And then what was the result? As an example.

AI assessment note: “the competencies are your big buckets, okay? So let's just use, um, one”

Q What does that mean? What data are we looking at and what are the signals in that data?

A Right. So if you have inbound, if you have clues from companies, as you start to move up ever so slightly, if you get those clues from you, again, that inbound or how your customer is using your products, let that data teach you if you can start creeping up market. And then the third would be to run a phase one. Try it. Try. If you want to go into the enterprise, yes, it's a full company effort. And that's what a lot of founders get wrong. What founders think is it's a sales and marketing go-to-market thing. It takes the whole company to rally around it. It's an entire company motion moving into the enterprise. It is ambitious, but try it.

AI assessment note: “inbound or how your customer is using your products, let that data teach you”

Q Okay, so how do you manage the challenging element of the handoff? Hey, Sean, I've sold you, and now you've just, you've learned to love me. Meet my colleague Sarah, and you're like, whoa, what? How do you handle on?

A We handle that. How I'd handle the past is through technology. That handoff should be flawless. So to the founders that are listening, ensure that you should have a hunter organization that chases new logos. I firmly believe it. By the way, Harry, I got, I was able to, one of the highlights of my sales career is I was able to launch the sale of the challenger sale. Have you heard of the challenger sale? No. Oh, Harry, this is a must read for you. Uh, it's a must read. Anyways, Brent Adamson, Matt Dixon, they're the authors and the researchers behind a lot of the content. But the argument is, and I firmly believe this to this day, you have an organization that secures new logos. So long as you have the runway and the TAM to support it, and then you have a customer facing organization. You separate those two, but to answer your question, the technology.

AI assessment note: “By the way, Harry, I got, I was able to, one of the highlights”

Q Okay, so how do you manage the challenging element of the handoff? Hey, Sean, I've sold you, and now you've just, you've learned to love me. Meet my colleague Sarah, and you're like, whoa, what? How do you handle on?

A We handle that. How I'd handle the past is through technology. That handoff should be flawless. So to the founders that are listening, ensure that you should have a hunter organization that chases new logos. I firmly believe it. By the way, Harry, I got, I was able to, one of the highlights of my sales career is I was able to launch the sale of the challenger sale. Have you heard of the challenger sale? No. Oh, Harry, this is a must read for you. Uh, it's a must read. Anyways, Brent Adamson, Matt Dixon, they're the authors and the researchers behind a lot of the content. But the argument is, and I firmly believe this to this day, you have an organization that secures new logos. So long as you have the runway and the TAM to support it, and then you have a customer facing organization. You separate those two, but to answer your question, the technology.

AI assessment note: “By the way, Harry, I got, I was able to, one of the highlights”