The Exchanges

Q But I should, and that's why I run every day, because I like to feel uncomfortable. What did you learn about yourself?

A Look, that's a great question. And, you know, I'm, I'm still managing the first LaFamia Fund, and I'm incredibly proud of what we've built with the team. So we've invested in 30 companies. Um, many of them have turned unicorns or decacorns like Deal, Presonio, Shoko, Forto, where we've had the privilege to be seed investors. And believe me, it hasn't been an easy decision than saying, you know, if you've put all your energy in something, building it, if you invented it, if you kind of, you know, put risk in it, contrarian thoughts to, to say you want to continue in a different setup. I was at the beginning of my thirties, um, and I realized that it's my biggest passion to be an entrepreneur in VC, and I wanted to do this for the next 2030 years. So the one thing you shouldn't do is compromise on the partnership setup, because it's a very, very long-term, um, game. And with Sebastian, who I founded Visionaries with, um, he has been a long friend. So we've worked on many deals together. He was my first LP in the first La Familia fund. So we, we did companies like Wey and other investments together, and he's a fabulous entrepreneur. When he became available after selling Amovelie after six years, it was basically a great setup to team up. And on the other side, you know, with Jeanette, um, I, I really loved working on with her and I was the one also putting her into our group when…

AI assessment note: “I realized that it's my biggest passion to be an entrepreneur in VC”

Q all my LPs tell me. Um, but I don't want to hire someone with no experience cause you can't just give them a check, but you need to put mechanisms around them to learn, to grow. I, we don't have the time or space to do that. You need to just run from day one. So. Did you put the mechanisms in place, and if so, what are those mechanisms?

A Look, in the beginning you're doing everything, right? So it was just Sebastian and I starting the fund and your CFO, your chief media officer, your chief investment officer, and you, you just cover everything. I think it's also important to give the DNA of what you think you want to do different into that company, but then it's also important to not micromanage the whole time, but really in the best case, find people who are so much better than you are in each of those dimensions to really take things to an exponential development. And I think that's, that's the balance after like a year when in the beginning it's easy. You don't have a portfolio to cover. You have enough time to look how you design your office or website, but then you start doing investment, and then you have 30 companies in the portfolio, and then you don't have time to do this anymore. You can't be kind of everywhere, so that's why I think the best mechanism that we put in place is that we hire people that we give 50% a job description of why we need someone, And 50%, we give them the degrees of freedom to use their time to really unlock what they love doing, what they're good at, and what really, really in turn brings our company to the next level.

AI assessment note: “the best mechanism that we put in place is that we hire people that we give 50%”

Q Uh, and so you have pre-seed and seed, and then we have. Not a Series A. We have a Series B and C. Yeah. So how does that work out in terms of fund sizes, just so everyone can understand? Exactly.

A So I, I start answering that question again. Sorry, you were asking, what's the strategy? So, um, yeah, we, we think, you know, if you look at Europe, um, when we started Visionaries, we thought Series A was pretty crowded. You have an incredible amount of funds with kind of a hundred to seven hundred million in fund size that typically enter Series A, but that has been Bloody red ocean, uh, and I think valuations have been quite aggressive, uh, compared to the traction that the companies had, and at the same time, it's not yet a space where we can add so much value with our network, so we said, we're good at pre-seed seed, so that's basically, we've all been entrepreneurs before, and we will love working with founders really at those dirty early stages, and then we leave out Serious A, so there's no signaling risk for the founders, and they can choose from those amazing funds out there, whether it's an Excel, a Sequoia, an Index, or You name them, who are amazing lead investors. And then again, for us, it's really interesting at Series B when B to B companies start hyperscaling. They need to build a customer base across Europe. That's where our family business entrepreneurs can be interesting, whether it's all the car companies, them, the Miele's, the Swarovski's of this world. And, uh, that's also where founders, you know, if they want to get go to market advice, they better …

AI assessment note: “Sorry, you were asking, what's the strategy?”

Q interesting thing with visionaries is like, when you look at that early stage, like practice, they believe that actually you generate returns at early stage by picking when really everyone else is much more focused on breath and volume, which I think is probably true. How do you think about the picking at seed and whether it's really possible to honestly do a concentrated strategy at seed and pick well?

A I mean, I think on the extreme, um, either you run the Y combinator seed kind of model where you're just, um, basically building a broad portfolio and the likelihood to have like one or two of those amazing. So where your iPath kind of outliers is almost given. So you're basically building a seed index on the really best of the best founders, but then you, you can't get your, your ownership that if something is really a crazy home run, you get to 20 X, you're a fund or 25 X. So you'll have a incredibly good performance and those funds are doing super well. That's the one game and the other one is like building a more concentrated portfolio.

AI assessment note: “That's the one game and the other one is like building a more concentrated portfolio.”

Q and Europe. And then I spoke to an LP and they said, How did I put money in European funds at the A because I'm just betting that they would get something that the US fund missed. Do you think that's short-sighted and unfair? And do you think you'd be worried if you're a series A fund today when the US guys are coming in harder than ever and winning?

A Yeah. I mean, I can't speak for Series A because we're, we're, we're not engaged in that space that much, but from our portfolio, you mentioned Seed, I, I don't see it the same way, but, but maybe let me put it in a different way. I think those founders that we want to back are those guys that really do deep referencing on the funds that they want to work with and have a super clear kind of impression why they want to work with which fund. It's like a wedding. You can't get divorced, and so I think those founders that are just hyped by US brand putting in three million and a zero or five million without thinking about the so what are not the founders we want to back because that's not the long-term thinking. Those founders that really go deep into referencing, we see actually many conversations where they might go rather for .9 or visionaries or 20 VC or whoever for the seed stage because they're closer To, uh, to those partners working with them. They are meaningful check in our funds because we're smaller funds. We work hard. We want to make everything, and they're independent in this U.S. era to really choose from a great fund with a significant check, a board position from a partner, not an associate. So I think, long story short, it's self-selection. Those founders that go with U.S. funds and really know why, because either they want to go into the U.S. market or they have…

AI assessment note: “I can't speak for Series A because we're, we're, we're not engaged in that space”

Q Do you consider yourself an entrepreneur or an ambassador?

A Um, that's the daily balance. So I think, you know, the, what, what gets me up in the morning is, um, basically on the one hand side, we, you know, we, we're entrepreneurs, we need to build the company that we're investing with, right? And that's like just building any other company. There's not, there's no team, there's no strategy, there's no office, there's no website. So, uh, it's basically just like any other company. You can spend 150% of your time doing it. And on the other side, we're doing Investments in our job is to find the best companies, but I think exactly this combination, that's why we never decided to become partner of another fund, but having those degrees of freedom to build it the way you think it's right, it's, it's what excites me, it's what gives me energy, and I think it's what makes me a good investor for founders, because I have an entrepreneurial passion of building something and not just an abstract investor.

AI assessment note: “that's the daily balance.”

Q Can I ask, you've founded now two firms with visionaries, um, as have I. Um, what's the fucking hardest element of building a firm?

A Yeah. I think it is this balance of being an entrepreneur and being a VC, you know, Christoph Jan's SaaS napkin, you know, SaaS companies. I did it for fun, uh, in venture capital to my team kind of driver tree with all the things that you have to do at the same time. But I think, you know, it's all about the team then that you build that really unlocks the power of the company and what you can get out of it. And in venture capital is incredibly difficult to, to hire people because they need to be Hyper smart, humble, visionary at the same time, no linear thinkers. So I think it's, it's hard to find them, but the way we decided to, to do it is, is basically not hiring experienced people who have been in VC and who just apply the logic that they've learned at another fund, but go for incredibly young, hungry, hyper intelligent, and people that really want to go exponential in their development, because I think that's what

AI assessment note: “I think it is this balance of being an entrepreneur and being a VC”

Q What are the barriers to collectivizing those units in the way that you said, and is that done by a supranational kind of government body organization institution, or is that done by a private institution like visionaries?

A I think it's a combination. First, those companies and those people need to be entrepreneurs and go back to their roots. It's interesting. If you look at those family businesses that are a 102 hundred, some 50 years old, they used to be risk takers. They used to be contrarian. That's what made them successful. But some of them are now in their, like, pretty, pretty high ages, and they're not taking risks anymore. They're just kind of stagnating. I think they need to get ahead of the wave again. Unlock capital. Take risks again. Investing into really new topics. I mean, what is their business model otherwise in 10 years? That's the first thing. So they, they, they need to do it. Who can catalyze it? I mean, that's the core business model of visionaries that we just, we have 25 of those family entrepreneurs because we think their domain knowledge and their capital is essential for B to B companies that we back. Um, I think, yeah, this is something where connecting those dots between those companies and the startup ecosystem is Something where I see huge potential in Europe. It's something we've done with La Familia with Visionaries, but it's something we can take to a much different level.

AI assessment note: “I think it's a combination. First, those companies and those people need to be”

Q interesting thing with visionaries is like, when you look at that early stage, like practice, they believe that actually you generate returns at early stage by picking when really everyone else is much more focused on breath and volume, which I think is probably true. How do you think about the picking at seed and whether it's really possible to honestly do a concentrated strategy at seed and pick well?

A I mean, I think on the extreme, um, either you run the Y combinator seed kind of model where you're just, um, basically building a broad portfolio and the likelihood to have like one or two of those amazing. So where your iPath kind of outliers is almost given. So you're basically building a seed index on the really best of the best founders, but then you, you can't get your, your ownership that if something is really a crazy home run, you get to 20 X, you're a fund or 25 X. So you'll have a incredibly good performance and those funds are doing super well. That's the one game and the other one is like building a more concentrated portfolio.

AI assessment note: “That's the one game and the other one is like building a more concentrated portfolio.”

Q That's mine. Uh, final one for you, my friend. With twenty-twenty-eight, is Visionaries like the next Black Rock adventure? Is it a boutique? Where do we want Visionaries to be in twenty-twenty-eight?

A I don't want to think that way because then it's a linear goal that you have. Uh, we, we, we, we, we, we try to turn things around. So what I want to do, um, I don't want to retire yet. I'm hungry and, and, uh, I want to build visionaries to endure the next 30 or 40 years. And I think the ingredient is the network that we build of those great entrepreneurs, because the likelihood that something great will come out of those People that have already built something great in their life is always very high, no matter if it's a seed fund, or an early growth fund, or a growth fund taking a lead, or another pre-IPO fund. We'll see. I think that that will, that story will be written by our co-entrepreneurs that we hired in our team that have this degrees of freedom to build it, and we always say calling a dream crazy is not an insult, it's a compliment, and we hope we have many crazy dreams, but they will be Coming out of this setup in the next five years, and I can't tell you yet what this will be.

AI assessment note: “I can't tell you yet what this will be.”

Q and Europe. And then I spoke to an LP and they said, How did I put money in European funds at the A because I'm just betting that they would get something that the US fund missed. Do you think that's short-sighted and unfair? And do you think you'd be worried if you're a series A fund today when the US guys are coming in harder than ever and winning?

A Yeah. I mean, I can't speak for Series A because we're, we're, we're not engaged in that space that much, but from our portfolio, you mentioned Seed, I, I don't see it the same way, but, but maybe let me put it in a different way. I think those founders that we want to back are those guys that really do deep referencing on the funds that they want to work with and have a super clear kind of impression why they want to work with which fund. It's like a wedding. You can't get divorced, and so I think those founders that are just hyped by US brand putting in three million and a zero or five million without thinking about the so what are not the founders we want to back because that's not the long-term thinking. Those founders that really go deep into referencing, we see actually many conversations where they might go rather for .9 or visionaries or 20 VC or whoever for the seed stage because they're closer To, uh, to those partners working with them. They are meaningful check in our funds because we're smaller funds. We work hard. We want to make everything, and they're independent in this U.S. era to really choose from a great fund with a significant check, a board position from a partner, not an associate. So I think, long story short, it's self-selection. Those founders that go with U.S. funds and really know why, because either they want to go into the U.S. market or they have…

AI assessment note: “I can't speak for Series A because we're, we're, we're not engaged in that space”

Q Uh, and so you have pre-seed and seed, and then we have. Not a Series A. We have a Series B and C. Yeah. So how does that work out in terms of fund sizes, just so everyone can understand? Exactly.

A So I, I start answering that question again. Sorry, you were asking, what's the strategy? So, um, yeah, we, we think, you know, if you look at Europe, um, when we started Visionaries, we thought Series A was pretty crowded. You have an incredible amount of funds with kind of a hundred to seven hundred million in fund size that typically enter Series A, but that has been Bloody red ocean, uh, and I think valuations have been quite aggressive, uh, compared to the traction that the companies had, and at the same time, it's not yet a space where we can add so much value with our network, so we said, we're good at pre-seed seed, so that's basically, we've all been entrepreneurs before, and we will love working with founders really at those dirty early stages, and then we leave out Serious A, so there's no signaling risk for the founders, and they can choose from those amazing funds out there, whether it's an Excel, a Sequoia, an Index, or You name them, who are amazing lead investors. And then again, for us, it's really interesting at Series B when B to B companies start hyperscaling. They need to build a customer base across Europe. That's where our family business entrepreneurs can be interesting, whether it's all the car companies, them, the Miele's, the Swarovski's of this world. And, uh, that's also where founders, you know, if they want to get go to market advice, they better …

AI assessment note: “Sorry, you were asking, what's the strategy?”

Q But I should, and that's why I run every day, because I like to feel uncomfortable. What did you learn about yourself?

A Look, that's a great question. And, you know, I'm, I'm still managing the first LaFamia Fund, and I'm incredibly proud of what we've built with the team. So we've invested in 30 companies. Um, many of them have turned unicorns or decacorns like Deal, Presonio, Shoko, Forto, where we've had the privilege to be seed investors. And believe me, it hasn't been an easy decision than saying, you know, if you've put all your energy in something, building it, if you invented it, if you kind of, you know, put risk in it, contrarian thoughts to, to say you want to continue in a different setup. I was at the beginning of my thirties, um, and I realized that it's my biggest passion to be an entrepreneur in VC, and I wanted to do this for the next 2030 years. So the one thing you shouldn't do is compromise on the partnership setup, because it's a very, very long-term, um, game. And with Sebastian, who I founded Visionaries with, um, he has been a long friend. So we've worked on many deals together. He was my first LP in the first La Familia fund. So we, we did companies like Wey and other investments together, and he's a fabulous entrepreneur. When he became available after selling Amovelie after six years, it was basically a great setup to team up. And on the other side, you know, with Jeanette, um, I, I really loved working on with her and I was the one also putting her into our group when…

AI assessment note: “I realized that it's my biggest passion to be an entrepreneur in VC”

Q Do you know what price they did the one 30?

A I'm sure you can find it online. But that's an example of, you know, alpha domain knowledge, deep capital pools, taking risks. If we multiply that the 1500 times you mentioned, we can do this with cardiac device manufacturer, with like all those specialty companies. I think it's incredible what we can unlock, and the one thing why I'm optimistic, don't underestimate how fast those companies can move. Take Max Fisman. He inherited Fisman from his father, took him three years and a lot of work to get 14,000 employees into the digital age. You have the whole energy thing that happened in Europe, kind of attack it with fast decision making, act fast during Covid, and he's in his early thirties, and we have many of those next-gen entrepreneurs who are very intelligent, Who are ambitious to maybe even reach something higher than their parents did, and can take fast decisions, take risks, think long-term. Let's bring them into the B to B ecosystem, because that's something unique that typically US VC funds can't do, that multi-stage funds can't do, but which is essential to lock, unlock the alpha in B to B. Let's say a final one, but I like ending before we do a quick fight on an hour of positivity.

AI assessment note: “I'm sure you can find it online. But that's an example of”