The Exchanges

Q How do you do that effectively? Like, I, I'm constantly hiring, and I'm like, well, I have people like, do you have a job description? I'm like, not really. I just know I need this person, and they're going to do newsletters and YouTube and, and, uh, copyright for the blog. I've not really done the JD. How, how would you advise me?

A And to be clear, you know, I think based on the stage of the company and, and this, the, the need for that role, like, You don't always need a JD. It doesn't always need to be exactly prescriptive. And I'd imagine, Ari, that you have a really good sense for what you need, what you're looking for, and what that person is going to be responsible for when they join. Um, and you've come to that sense by taking in a bunch of, you know, different information from the things that you're working on, the people you're working with, the opportunities you have in front of you, the vision of where you want to go. All of those things come together to help clarify for you What it is you're looking for. That's basically this process, right? You have to start by talking to the people. You gotta understand, like, what needs do your team members have? You know, where do they feel stretched thin? What skillset gaps do they see? Just like when you're building a product, you start by talking with the customers. You know, in this world, when you're hiring somebody, your customer is your team. You're trying to make their, their jobs easier. You're trying to make them more efficient. You're trying to make them, you know, enjoy the work they are doing more and not have to do some of the work that, you know, They're less equipped to do or less passionate about. And so it really starts with having those …

AI assessment note: “You have to start by talking to the people. You gotta understand, like, what needs”

Q How do you do that effectively? Like, I, I'm constantly hiring, and I'm like, well, I have people like, do you have a job description? I'm like, not really. I just know I need this person, and they're going to do newsletters and YouTube and, and, uh, copyright for the blog. I've not really done the JD. How, how would you advise me?

A And to be clear, you know, I think based on the stage of the company and, and this, the, the need for that role, like, You don't always need a JD. It doesn't always need to be exactly prescriptive. And I'd imagine, Ari, that you have a really good sense for what you need, what you're looking for, and what that person is going to be responsible for when they join. Um, and you've come to that sense by taking in a bunch of, you know, different information from the things that you're working on, the people you're working with, the opportunities you have in front of you, the vision of where you want to go. All of those things come together to help clarify for you What it is you're looking for. That's basically this process, right? You have to start by talking to the people. You gotta understand, like, what needs do your team members have? You know, where do they feel stretched thin? What skillset gaps do they see? Just like when you're building a product, you start by talking with the customers. You know, in this world, when you're hiring somebody, your customer is your team. You're trying to make their, their jobs easier. You're trying to make them more efficient. You're trying to make them, you know, enjoy the work they are doing more and not have to do some of the work that, you know, They're less equipped to do or less passionate about. And so it really starts with having those …

AI assessment note: “You have to start by talking to the people. You gotta understand”

Q Can I ask you in terms of like the process for hiring new team members at Snapzo for product, like, is it like a meeting with a PM and then a meeting with someone else and then a meeting with you? Like, what does that actual process look like?

A It depends on the role. It depends on the level. It depends which team they're sitting in. Um, but for the most part, you know, I think like many companies, we, we have a screening call first. It's usually just 30 minutes. It's kind of a get to know you. You know, you, you provide some information about the role. You ask a few questions. Make sure that, you know, there's, there's at least a pretty strong likelihood of a fit, and you do that so that you're not wasting the time of, you know, six or seven people in an interview loops Spending, you know, 45 minutes each with this person, which is time consuming, especially when you're in hyper growth, like, people will spend a lot of time interviewing, and so those screens are a really important way to make sure that, you know, that is time well spent. Um, I think once you get into the interview stage, you know, I think one thing that is really important when we're doing our hiring is making sure that the, the panel of the folks interviewing this person are diverse and, you know, not just from a Ethnicity standpoint or socioeconomic standpoint, but, but also from a roles and discipline standpoint, you know, if you're a product manager at Snap, you're going to be working very closely with engineers. You're going to be working very closely with designers. You're going to have to be able to, you know, juggle all of these different rol…

AI assessment note: “we have a screening call first... once you get into the interview stage”

Q I love that in terms of the utility value created there and final one, I promise. But does that still go through the phone camera lens though, or does it go through Contact lenses or glasses. What, what happened to the snap glasses?

A Yeah, the snap, it's something we're still working on. And, you know, I can't say much, but there's some really exciting progress. So, you know, we fundamentally believe that, that AR is going to become better and better. It's going to become more and more useful. And ultimately the, the promise of augmented reality is that it can help technology move to the background, right? So you don't have to have this thing between you and the world. And glasses, you know, are a better form factor for that. It can really take technology out of the way when you don't need it, but overlay it on the world when it's useful too. And so, you know, for us, that is the, the pinnacle of augmented reality and why we're pursuing it. I think ultimately augmented reality will find its, its true essence through glasses. Today, it's extremely powerful on the phone and the amount of Engagement and, and the developer ecosystem we've been able to build around that ubiquity is what's going to empower us to be really well positioned for that future.

AI assessment note: “it's something we're still working on. And, you know, I can't say much”

Q the new feature, and a week later I think, why did I ever use the home button on an iPhone before when I can simply swipe up? But I hated losing my home button. My question to you is, when change happens, consumers hate it, whether it's good or bad, but how do you know whether it's good change with delayed data or Bad change. And they just hate it.

A Yeah. It's a, it, it's a really good question. Consumers do generally hate change. It's hard, right? You have to change your habits. You have to do something. There's friction involved in, in changing the way that you use something. And, you know, for the most part, if you're not the one working at the company, really thinking about the long-term strategy in the details, making these decisions, and it's just, you know, thrown at you, that can be a little bit disconcerting. And, and so, You have to choose as an organization. Do you want your customers to hate the products you ship every time you do something drastically different? Or do you want the company to die, right? That's the choice you have in front of you. And so we always choose the former. Now, I think to answer your question directly, right? How do you know? And again, I think it comes back to being able to use these things internally and sit with them for a while, right? That can give you a level of confidence that, Hey, you know, We didn't like this thing at first either. It was hard to get used to. We had to change our habit. You know, this button went to the other side, whatever it might be, but we've been sitting with it for weeks and we understand that, you know, our curve of frustration versus value add has, has really changed over time. And so we can expect, we'll see the same thing out of the community. Now,…

AI assessment note: “use these things internally and sit with them... track these through tests with... an AB test”

Q I once heard that if you're doing hiring right, you get it right. 50% of the time. What would you say your right ratio is?

A That's a really good question. You know, I think that's about right, by the way, you know, I think that you're, you're going to, to get it wrong about 50% of the time. Now that doesn't mean 50% of the people you hire aren't going to work out, but I will say about 50% of the people we hire end up changing their role or tweaking it or working on something slightly different because Over time, we realize that there's a better fit within that. Um, I would say that for the most part, you know, the people we hire will stick around for a while because, you know, I think we have a good sense of, of what makes somebody successful at Snap, but of course, we're never perfect there, and I do think that, that 50% mark is, is probably at least a good, good one to strive for.

AI assessment note: “I think that's about right, by the way”

Q Jeremy on your team before the show, and it's so funny you say that. He said that one of your superpowers is questioning everything, questioning conventions the way that it is now. My question to you is, how do you think about questioning conventions that are conventions for a reason? It's, it's that way because it is best that way versus it's that way because it's always been that way.

A Yep. Therein lies the challenge. I mean, that, that's the challenge of, of product and design and, and And prioritization and operating, you know, in, in, in a company is there's always going to be this nuance and there's going to be a level of instincts and intuition you have to apply to this. But I think when it comes to questioning convention, like the most important thing to just set the stage is to help people understand why it's so important to question conventions in the first place. Right. And, and ultimately it comes back to this idea that if you're doing things the way things have always been done, especially as, you know, the underdog in an industry with, Giant incumbents. You're always going to be playing catch up. The only way to win is to try to do something differently. Now there's always risk involved in that. And so you have to try to question these conventions quickly. You have to try to do them in, in, in the way that you can validate or invalidate whether or not that convention is the right one as fast as you possibly can. And no, you know, some conventions aren't worth questioning. You're right. You know, I think there are certain things where you just take it As truth, right? Like, I think we can, we can safely say that, um, you know, having a CEO of an organization, at least for Snap, it's the right thing to do. We don't need to question that. We don't ne…

AI assessment note: “validate or invalidate whether or not that convention is the right one as fast”

Q How does idea submission work internally? I have Gustav, the CPO at Spotify on the show, and he said, talk is cheap, so we should do more of it, um, which I thought was quite an interesting statement. How do you think about, like, idea generation and submission internally to ensure that you hear the best ideas?

A Yeah, I, I actually really like that, you know, the idea that talk is cheap. I think I would add maybe a caveat to that, which is talk is cheap if you set up an environment where it feels that way. Because talk can be very expensive, or it can take a toll if you don't feel like you're in an environment where it's safe to talk. And so, you know, maybe another fundamental ingredient of creating creative culture is creating psychological safety, right? If you feel Like, if you make a mistake, or you have an idea that's, you know, somebody's had a million times, or somebody else thinks is bad, you're not gonna share that. And if you're not sharing that, you know, we're not gonna have as many ideas to choose from. And ultimately, you know, the idea we pursue is only as good as the number of ideas we've had to choose from. And now, it can be difficult to choose the right idea to go pursue, right? And that's where a lot of this process comes into play. But ultimately, you know, the more ideas you have up front, the more likely you are to find a gem. And so I think it is really critical that you are encouraging that within, you know, the, the, the environment and making people feel really safe.

AI assessment note: “another fundamental ingredient of creating creative culture is creating psychological safety”

Q I'm crushing it at being a son. Whatever those are. But, we spoke about letting people go. I want to start on actually the hiring process itself. I see a lot of mistakes here. How do you actually structure the hiring process for a product team? And Jack, picture me as like a, a younger founder. Like, how do you advise me on how to hire and structure that process?

A You'll hear me say this a lot. You could ask me about Just about any question about how to apply process to it. And I'll go back to the same kind of design thinking process, because the beauty of design, the beauty of design thinking is that it's a way of solving problems. It's a process for problem solving. And by the way, you know, having, not having a team member that you need, that's a problem for the organization and one that you have to figure out how to solve. And so I really look at every process as this iterative process that, you know, it starts with defining the problem and hiring Is the same, right? If you're a starting founder or a public company CEO or whatever it might be, before you start the process of actually looking for a candidate, you have to understand and define the problems within your organization that needs solving through hiring somebody new. And I think what you find when you do that exercise is that oftentimes you can solve those problems by changing something existing within the organization. Changing a process, moving somebody between roles, changing their scope or, or the responsibilities, doing a reorg. All of these things are different tools you have at your disposal, disposal to solve a problem without necessarily needing to bring in some. Now, oftentimes the problem you're facing is you've got a gap in skill sets. You need some, you need an …

AI assessment note: “before you start the process of actually looking for a candidate, you have to understand”

Q clearly it was right to take that bet. Um, my, my question to you is, I'm sorry, this is off schedule, but You know, we, we always hear about Ev's kind of product chops being so stellar and so world class. You've seen it now over, gosh, what is that, nine years? What makes Ev so great a product, one, and how's his approach to product changed over nine years?

A Yeah, it's a really great question. And, you know, I think a lot of what you'll hear from me today, you know, is an articulation of things that I've, I've learned, you know, from working closely with Evan and seeing the way he operates. And, you know, I think one of the things that really sets Evan apart is his willingness. And, and it's not just a willingness, it's his desire to do things differently. He will not just take something as the right way because it's the way it's always been done. He questions everything, and he always pushes for something different. And the reality is, if you're pushing for something different, that's the only way you can ever do something better. And so, you know, that's, I think, really been the, the cultural impetus for all of the innovation that's come out of Snap is just this willingness, you know, from Evan at the top, then culturally ingrained throughout the, the, the business and the, and the company to just push for something beyond, something different than the way it's always been done.

AI assessment note: “one of the things that really sets Evan apart is his willingness... to do things differently”

Q I'm crushing it at being a son. Whatever those are. But, we spoke about letting people go. I want to start on actually the hiring process itself. I see a lot of mistakes here. How do you actually structure the hiring process for a product team? And Jack, picture me as like a, a younger founder. Like, how do you advise me on how to hire and structure that process?

A You'll hear me say this a lot. You could ask me about Just about any question about how to apply process to it. And I'll go back to the same kind of design thinking process, because the beauty of design, the beauty of design thinking is that it's a way of solving problems. It's a process for problem solving. And by the way, you know, having, not having a team member that you need, that's a problem for the organization and one that you have to figure out how to solve. And so I really look at every process as this iterative process that, you know, it starts with defining the problem and hiring Is the same, right? If you're a starting founder or a public company CEO or whatever it might be, before you start the process of actually looking for a candidate, you have to understand and define the problems within your organization that needs solving through hiring somebody new. And I think what you find when you do that exercise is that oftentimes you can solve those problems by changing something existing within the organization. Changing a process, moving somebody between roles, changing their scope or, or the responsibilities, doing a reorg. All of these things are different tools you have at your disposal, disposal to solve a problem without necessarily needing to bring in some. Now, oftentimes the problem you're facing is you've got a gap in skill sets. You need some, you need an …

AI assessment note: “before you start the process of actually looking for a candidate, you have to understand”

Q Oh yeah, yeah, we used to do that a lot. It worked brilliantly well, by the way. Um, the second thing I have to ask is about AR. What's your vision for the future of AR? Like, we always hear the talk of it. Um, Is it always through the phone camera lens? How do we think about that?

A You know, I think the, the, what's so incredible about Snapchat is that it really redefined what the camera can be. And I, you know, before Snapchat, the camera was really a tool to capture a moment to save for later or to, you know, and, and whether that was an artistic thing through, you know, artistic photography, or it was, you know, for family settings and, and, you know, saving those moments that were meaningful that you wanted to relive later. Snapchat really took the camera and it said, okay, what if this was a tool for communication? What if we made it, you know, more visual, more immersive so that, you know, a picture says a thousand words, right? And so that was the power of Snapchat. It just made it so much faster to have these immersive conversations that really made it feel like you were there with another person. And so people started using the camera a lot because it turns out that talking with friends is a far more frequent behavior Than capturing an image of something pretty. And so people were opening our camera hundreds of times a day to send, you know, a snap to somebody to continue a conversation. That led to a bunch of other opportunities and it really helped us think about like other ways of using the camera, right? You can, we can, you can use the camera to tell stories. You can use the camera to, you know, post content to the snap map. So people are go…

AI assessment note: “most exciting and most important opportunity for snap was that you could use the camera”

Q clearly it was right to take that bet. Um, my, my question to you is, I'm sorry, this is off schedule, but You know, we, we always hear about Ev's kind of product chops being so stellar and so world class. You've seen it now over, gosh, what is that, nine years? What makes Ev so great a product, one, and how's his approach to product changed over nine years?

A Yeah, it's a really great question. And, you know, I think a lot of what you'll hear from me today, you know, is an articulation of things that I've, I've learned, you know, from working closely with Evan and seeing the way he operates. And, you know, I think one of the things that really sets Evan apart is his willingness. And, and it's not just a willingness, it's his desire to do things differently. He will not just take something as the right way because it's the way it's always been done. He questions everything, and he always pushes for something different. And the reality is, if you're pushing for something different, that's the only way you can ever do something better. And so, you know, that's, I think, really been the, the cultural impetus for all of the innovation that's come out of Snap is just this willingness, you know, from Evan at the top, then culturally ingrained throughout the, the, the business and the, and the company to just push for something beyond, something different than the way it's always been done.

AI assessment note: “one of the things that really sets Evan apart is his willingness”

Q I love that in terms of the utility value created there and final one, I promise. But does that still go through the phone camera lens though, or does it go through Contact lenses or glasses. What, what happened to the snap glasses?

A Yeah, the snap, it's something we're still working on. And, you know, I can't say much, but there's some really exciting progress. So, you know, we fundamentally believe that, that AR is going to become better and better. It's going to become more and more useful. And ultimately the, the promise of augmented reality is that it can help technology move to the background, right? So you don't have to have this thing between you and the world. And glasses, you know, are a better form factor for that. It can really take technology out of the way when you don't need it, but overlay it on the world when it's useful too. And so, you know, for us, that is the, the pinnacle of augmented reality and why we're pursuing it. I think ultimately augmented reality will find its, its true essence through glasses. Today, it's extremely powerful on the phone and the amount of Engagement and, and the developer ecosystem we've been able to build around that ubiquity is what's going to empower us to be really well positioned for that future.

AI assessment note: “I can't say much, but there's some really exciting progress.”