The Exchanges

Q You're an investor too. The thing that everyone says is, ah, but they don't have any proprietary data. They're just a thin layer on top of X model. You have the data, actually. Like, how do you think about investing in new AI tools when they don't have proprietary data?

A I don't believe that should be the deciding factor, right? So first of all, I as an investor don't invest in kind of, you know, large scale, like late stage companies, et cetera, et cetera. I invest, you know, early on in people, read my friends who I know who do things in areas that I know. So, um, you know, but I don't subscribe to a lot of the criticism about the business model because it will change. You know, you don't have to have necessarily proprietary data to create a valuable business. You can offer tools. You can offer services that really change people's lives. And we see this every day today. So, you know, um, I think it's, you know, it's not a critical matter that they don't have proprietary data today doesn't mean they can't build an offering of something super valuable, um, I guess tomorrow. And, You know, we use a tool today that, you know, we, you know, they don't have a lot of proprietary data, but it's so powerful already that that's okay, you know, so.

AI assessment note: “I don't believe that should be the deciding factor”

Q Sorry, I'm fascinated. We always hear this, like, people are scared to say, like, actually, I'm doing it for the money. I really don't. Do you think we are overly cynical about people who do it for the money, and we kind of actually stigmatize it wrongly?

A That is such a good point. Absolutely, yes. It's okay to do it for the money. It's okay. I'm not doing it for the money, but you know what? Money is a great plus. I mean, money doesn't buy you happiness, but it can eliminate some forms of unhappiness, right? And a lot of people Um, fetishize this kind of, you know, grandiose meanings in life, and, you know, what it means to have a mission statement, and you put it on the wall, and, and I just think there's just so much ingenue, like, there's just so much lack of genuineness around this, that, you know what, a lot of people are doing it for the money. Other people, like me, we're doing it because we think we're good at it, and we want to win, and this is, we just happened to found something that we are Good at doing. And that drives us. You know, you might be doing it for, you know, your mom.

AI assessment note: “That is such a good point. Absolutely, yes. It's okay to do it for the money.”

Q You're an investor too. The thing that everyone says is, ah, but they don't have any proprietary data. They're just a thin layer on top of X model. You have the data, actually. Like, how do you think about investing in new AI tools when they don't have proprietary data?

A I don't believe that should be the deciding factor, right? So first of all, I as an investor don't invest in kind of, you know, large scale, like late stage companies, et cetera, et cetera. I invest, you know, early on in people, read my friends who I know who do things in areas that I know. So, um, you know, but I don't subscribe to a lot of the criticism about the business model because it will change. You know, you don't have to have necessarily proprietary data to create a valuable business. You can offer tools. You can offer services that really change people's lives. And we see this every day today. So, you know, um, I think it's, you know, it's not a critical matter that they don't have proprietary data today doesn't mean they can't build an offering of something super valuable, um, I guess tomorrow. And, You know, we use a tool today that, you know, we, you know, they don't have a lot of proprietary data, but it's so powerful already that that's okay, you know, so.

AI assessment note: “I don't believe that should be the deciding factor, right?”

Q What have been the biggest hiring mistakes you've made?

A Oh, that's a very good question. Um, first of all, I mean, we're a living organism, right? So we'll, we'll, we'll know in a couple of years much better. But if I look in the past, it has been those cases where we've hired for, for etiquette. So you hire someone who's worked at gaming company X and you say, oh, wow, they're, you know, super senior. They've done this. They even, you know, check out in terms when you do due diligence, etc. They even check out. Um, but, and oftentimes they don't work out. They come in, they say, oh, you know, this is how we used to do things there. And, um, you know, and, you know, the organisms are very different, potentially. This is, you know.

AI assessment note: “it has been those cases where we've hired for, for etiquette.”

Q So I'm sure Julien was fishing here, but he asked, when you review the time that you had at Facebook, it was such a transformative time for the company and for you, I'm sure. What were some of your biggest takeaways from being at Facebook?

A Yes. Facebook was an incredible place. I mean, I, um, I really absolutely loved being, spending time there, and I think my Facebook experience probably is very different than a lot of people's Facebook experience, because I was in London. London felt like an, you know, a startup within Facebook at the time, and a lot of that credit goes to Julian, who's like the best boss I ever had, right? He was awesome, and, you know, I still owe everything I've done to this day to him, and he'll, he'll, Calm. You say I'm bullshitting, but it's true. Um, and the biggest thing I learned at Facebook actually is things are never as bad as they seem and never as good as they seem. So it's a very stoic thing to think about. And this I actually heard in all hands with Mark. Um, and when I joined Facebook, you know, uh, it was 2012 and soon after Facebook launched the, uh, their mobile offering, right? Cause they were getting really heavily criticized About they don't have a presence on mobile. They missed the boat on mobile. Sure.

AI assessment note: “the biggest thing I learned at Facebook actually is things are never as bad”

Q And I struggle with the balance. How do you retain that humanity with kind of let's get to the card of the problem?

A A lot of it has to do with my personal style. And I think So, first of all, I'd be very surprised if you are as cold as you just made it out to be. I think you mean well, and anyone that knows you knows that you mean well, and the same, anyone that knows me knows I mean super well. I mean, I, you know, one of the things you told me earlier was that I am too nice. Yeah. Um, that is probably true, and I lean into that because I am a nice person, and I am not an asshole, and when I am Saying something, uh, let's say, let's talk about last week's numbers, people know it's me just really wanting to get to the core of the matter. I have almost zero ego, and, you know, so I think it's just this, you know, I hope people know what I mean when I say, let's talk about the bad performance last week, or so on. And I think a lot of this I learned at Skype, and this was done via a Many, many, many interactions with very apt Estonian engineers. You know, that was, that was just something that was, uh.

AI assessment note: “people know it's me just really wanting to get to the core of the matter.”

Q They do not want to work hard, they do not want to come into the office, they get paid top dollar, and actually, they want great package, they want all of this, and they don't work hard. And so, I've misjudged hunger. Have you misjudged hunger? And what have you learned from, You're hiring success or failures in this?

A Sure. I mean, we're, you know, we have 450 people, I'm sure, and, you know, we get, we get things wrong all the time, but I think what we do get right is, ah, we have a very high standard in terms of hiring. You know, to get a job as a marketing analyst at Triple Dot, you have to pass through several case interviews, you have to do modeling exercises, you have to do, and you have to talk to so many different people That have different levels of intellectual aggressiveness, right? And if you pass through that filter, no one can, you know, tell you you're not hungry. Or, you know, if you just kind of put, it's like, you know, converting to Judaism or something, right? Like, I have a friend, Antonio Garcia Martinez, who, you know, is, um, is a Twitter personality who converts to Judaism, and, you know, It's just like, if you are, if you're that, if you're that kind of going through those hoops, then I think it's, you know, maybe you do belong there, right? So our process is, you know, very rigorous, and if you just make it through that process, then, you know, you do know that you have a certain baseline of not only intellectual curiosity, but also hunger and, and, um, and rigor as well.

AI assessment note: “if you pass through that filter, no one can, you know, tell you you're not hungry”

Q Unpacking that for me. That's a great statement. Why is it so important? Because again, that goes against the core ethos of focus, do one thing well. Why is diversification important?

A Because at the beginning of a startup, right? And in most cases, I mean, we took a different route. We went after a known market. We took on execution risk, right? But If you're a startup that is trying to create a new product that doesn't exist in the market today, right? You might very well be kind of developing something and bumping your head against the wall, right? And the message is focus, but that actually reads not as focused as just keep bumping your head against the wall. And that is a very dangerous advice because, you know, the real, you know, strength in that case is to know how to pivot and And, and there, you cannot be formulaic about this. There's just no silver bullet about when to know to persist versus when to know when to pivot. That probably is the singular biggest determinant of success is.

AI assessment note: “real strength in that case is to know how to pivot”

Q easy. I don't have that luxury with 99%, like you don't when you meet a founder. So, as in, and attribution's hard. You said there, like, oh, you know, say what you've done and articulate your credits, but attribution's not always true. Some people take credit for things they didn't do. How do you think about actually Determining quality in those people when you don't have that historical relationship arc?

A Yes. I think, you know, it's, it's not an easy thing. It's, there's again, no silver bullets, because every rule we generate, we can, you know, come up with counter examples. But I, in my experience, the people, um, that have, that will succeed, if you kind of look back, they'll have grit, they'll have perseverance. They're the ones That actually respond to you right away. Like you don't want someone who, you know, when you're communicating with them, take their time to respond to you or whatever it is. Um, but those are signals. How do you get down to the core? You know, I don't know. It's a very hard, it's a very hard question. I think it's like falling in love. I, if you told me to write an algorithm to fall in love, I couldn't, but you know it when you see it kind of thing, you know?

AI assessment note: “I think it's like falling in love... you know it when you see it”

Q Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. Uh, okay, uh, tell me, uh, What would you most like to change about the world of venture?

A Um, I think venture is so important, but I'm actually amazed how much we're all swimming in our own bullshit sometimes. And I say this because, you know, there's, um, and if you look at a lot of the venture capital and, you know, I invest in companies and a lot of times companies, I think, want to partner with me because I don't, I don't peddle the same bullshit to them, and you know, I, I actually told afterwards that, you know, if I give any advice at all, it's just really kind of actionable stuff that comes from my own background. Um, there's a, there's a little bit of, um, it's very dangerous, I think, for VCs to give definitive advice, uh, to, to companies, because as a founder, you know, You are thinking about what you're building, or if you're, you should be thinking about what you're building, 24 seven. And it's very dangerous for someone to helicopter in for, you know, even, let's say, an hour a week, in a month, or whatever it is, to give you advice, because they're not feeling the nuts and bolts of everything you're doing all the time. That's not what they're thinking about 24 seven, right? At best, you know, they are taking Other lessons learned in other companies, translating them, putting them through a filter, and then telling you what they think applies to your case. It might be good, but it might be horrible too, and it's, it can be quite dangerous, right? So, …

AI assessment note: “it's very dangerous, I think, for VCs to give definitive advice”

Q Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. Uh, okay, uh, tell me, uh, What would you most like to change about the world of venture?

A Um, I think venture is so important, but I'm actually amazed how much we're all swimming in our own bullshit sometimes. And I say this because, you know, there's, um, and if you look at a lot of the venture capital and, you know, I invest in companies and a lot of times companies, I think, want to partner with me because I don't, I don't peddle the same bullshit to them, and you know, I, I actually told afterwards that, you know, if I give any advice at all, it's just really kind of actionable stuff that comes from my own background. Um, there's a, there's a little bit of, um, it's very dangerous, I think, for VCs to give definitive advice, uh, to, to companies, because as a founder, you know, You are thinking about what you're building, or if you're, you should be thinking about what you're building, 24 seven. And it's very dangerous for someone to helicopter in for, you know, even, let's say, an hour a week, in a month, or whatever it is, to give you advice, because they're not feeling the nuts and bolts of everything you're doing all the time. That's not what they're thinking about 24 seven, right? At best, you know, they are taking Other lessons learned in other companies, translating them, putting them through a filter, and then telling you what they think applies to your case. It might be good, but it might be horrible too, and it's, it can be quite dangerous, right? So, …

AI assessment note: “it's very dangerous, I think, for VCs to give definitive advice”

Q easy. I don't have that luxury with 99%, like you don't when you meet a founder. So, as in, and attribution's hard. You said there, like, oh, you know, say what you've done and articulate your credits, but attribution's not always true. Some people take credit for things they didn't do. How do you think about actually Determining quality in those people when you don't have that historical relationship arc?

A Yes. I think, you know, it's, it's not an easy thing. It's, there's again, no silver bullets, because every rule we generate, we can, you know, come up with counter examples. But I, in my experience, the people, um, that have, that will succeed, if you kind of look back, they'll have grit, they'll have perseverance. They're the ones That actually respond to you right away. Like you don't want someone who, you know, when you're communicating with them, take their time to respond to you or whatever it is. Um, but those are signals. How do you get down to the core? You know, I don't know. It's a very hard, it's a very hard question. I think it's like falling in love. I, if you told me to write an algorithm to fall in love, I couldn't, but you know it when you see it kind of thing, you know?

AI assessment note: “I think it's like falling in love. [...] you know it when you see it”

Q Um, an amazing achievement. What do you think UK politics could do differently around accreditation, around salutations? What do you think we could do differently?

A So I think UK, so I am quite a political person. I, I do like to get involved, and without getting into too much specifics, right, I'm not a conservative. I've, I've never been, right, but I do actually like Um, the fact that Rishi is, you know, the prime minister out of all the kind of candidates, I actually think he has a pro-business agenda, which I really like, and he has this kind of ability to articulate a vision that is, you know, tech friendly. I always said, actually, you know, when I contrast the US and the UK, it's such a phenomenal contrast, because I spent 16 years in the US and 11 years now in the UK, and I think And, you know, people call me sappy for believing this, but, you know, the US, I still subscribe to this, you know, American dream, and you can feel it, you can breathe it, and this, this is super energizing for a foreigner. You go into the US, no one asks you, the first question is never, where are you from? Never. It's almost rude to ask someone, where are you from? The first question always is, what do you do? Contrast that to the UK where the first question cannot be, what do you do? It's rude, right? It's almost rude. It's like, where are you from? And you know, the way it manifests is that I have friends who are third generation Turks born in Germany that they cannot say we're Germans, right? So I do think there's a big missed opportunity because th…

AI assessment note: “I actually think he has a pro-business agenda, which I really like”