StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Apr 4, 2022 · 38m · 20vc

20VC: Founding Legendary Entertainment and Creating Batman, The Hangover and 300, The Importance of Luck vs Skill in Success, How Relationships to Money Change & Why Velocity is the Most Important Factor in Company Building Success with Thomas Tull

Thomas Tull · 26m spoken Harry Stebbings · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of 20VC, host Harry Stebbings interviews founder and investor Thomas Tull about his journey from childhood poverty to founding Legendary Entertainment and Tullco LLC. Tull shares insights on resilience, risk management, wealth dynamics, film production, and his unique holding company investment model.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 28.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Harry as informed peer 1.6 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 0.3 Harry pushing back 0.6
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:57–3:15 · Harry as informed peer 0/10 Show Sponsors and Episode Bumper This segment is an intro bumper and sponsor read by the host with no guest participation.3:15–5:56 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Early Entrepreneurship and Developing Resilience Harry asks open questions about Thomas Tull's early upbringing and laundromat business. Tull reflects on growing up poor and developing stoicism.5:56–9:34 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Evolving Motivations and Mindset Around Wealth Tull reframes money as providing freedom of choice rather than status. Harry asks a follow-up about whether the fear of poverty persists despite wealth.9:34–13:24 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Personal Boundaries, Relationships, and Work-Life Transition Harry asks for direct personal advice regarding work-life balance and fear of mediocrity. Tull acts as a mentor, advising him on establishing clear principles and leveraging network efficiency.13:24–16:08 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Learning from High Performers and Defining Achievement Harry asks Tull about his interactions with top performers and turns the question back onto Tull's own achievements.16:08–21:06 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 The Interplay of Luck, Skill, and Iconic Media Projects Harry asks Tull to differentiate moments of skill versus luck in his career. Tull emphasizes universal luck in partnering with Christopher Nolan while highlighting the skill behind film projects.21:06–25:23 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Tullco's Holding Company Model and Informed Risk Taking Harry demonstrates sector knowledge by asking how Tullco's holding company structure interacts with traditional venture capital funds. Tull outlines why he prefers using his own balance sheet.25:23–31:04 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Business Velocity, Societal Challenges, and Future Optimism Tull discusses business velocity, social polarization, and optimism regarding biotech and the younger generation.31:04–35:39 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Quickfire Insights on Habits, Investments, and Market Dynamics In the quickfire section, Tull shares book recommendations, investing misses, and notes the irrationality of public markets using the Peloton example.0:57–3:15 · Guest teaching 0/10 Show Sponsors and Episode Bumper This segment is an intro bumper and sponsor read by the host with no guest participation.3:15–5:56 · Guest teaching 2/10 Early Entrepreneurship and Developing Resilience Harry asks open questions about Thomas Tull's early upbringing and laundromat business. Tull reflects on growing up poor and developing stoicism.5:56–9:34 · Guest teaching 3/10 Evolving Motivations and Mindset Around Wealth Tull reframes money as providing freedom of choice rather than status. Harry asks a follow-up about whether the fear of poverty persists despite wealth.9:34–13:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 Personal Boundaries, Relationships, and Work-Life Transition Harry asks for direct personal advice regarding work-life balance and fear of mediocrity. Tull acts as a mentor, advising him on establishing clear principles and leveraging network efficiency.13:24–16:08 · Guest teaching 3/10 Learning from High Performers and Defining Achievement Harry asks Tull about his interactions with top performers and turns the question back onto Tull's own achievements.16:08–21:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Interplay of Luck, Skill, and Iconic Media Projects Harry asks Tull to differentiate moments of skill versus luck in his career. Tull emphasizes universal luck in partnering with Christopher Nolan while highlighting the skill behind film projects.21:06–25:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 Tullco's Holding Company Model and Informed Risk Taking Harry demonstrates sector knowledge by asking how Tullco's holding company structure interacts with traditional venture capital funds. Tull outlines why he prefers using his own balance sheet.25:23–31:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 Business Velocity, Societal Challenges, and Future Optimism Tull discusses business velocity, social polarization, and optimism regarding biotech and the younger generation.31:04–35:39 · Guest teaching 3/10 Quickfire Insights on Habits, Investments, and Market Dynamics In the quickfire section, Tull shares book recommendations, investing misses, and notes the irrationality of public markets using the Peloton example.0:57–3:15 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Show Sponsors and Episode Bumper This segment is an intro bumper and sponsor read by the host with no guest participation.3:15–5:56 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Early Entrepreneurship and Developing Resilience Harry asks open questions about Thomas Tull's early upbringing and laundromat business. Tull reflects on growing up poor and developing stoicism.5:56–9:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Evolving Motivations and Mindset Around Wealth Tull reframes money as providing freedom of choice rather than status. Harry asks a follow-up about whether the fear of poverty persists despite wealth.9:34–13:24 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Personal Boundaries, Relationships, and Work-Life Transition Harry asks for direct personal advice regarding work-life balance and fear of mediocrity. Tull acts as a mentor, advising him on establishing clear principles and leveraging network efficiency.13:24–16:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Learning from High Performers and Defining Achievement Harry asks Tull about his interactions with top performers and turns the question back onto Tull's own achievements.16:08–21:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Interplay of Luck, Skill, and Iconic Media Projects Harry asks Tull to differentiate moments of skill versus luck in his career. Tull emphasizes universal luck in partnering with Christopher Nolan while highlighting the skill behind film projects.21:06–25:23 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Tullco's Holding Company Model and Informed Risk Taking Harry demonstrates sector knowledge by asking how Tullco's holding company structure interacts with traditional venture capital funds. Tull outlines why he prefers using his own balance sheet.25:23–31:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Business Velocity, Societal Challenges, and Future Optimism Tull discusses business velocity, social polarization, and optimism regarding biotech and the younger generation.31:04–35:39 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Quickfire Insights on Habits, Investments, and Market Dynamics In the quickfire section, Tull shares book recommendations, investing misses, and notes the irrationality of public markets using the Peloton example.0:57–3:15 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Show Sponsors and Episode Bumper This segment is an intro bumper and sponsor read by the host with no guest participation.3:15–5:56 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Early Entrepreneurship and Developing Resilience Harry asks open questions about Thomas Tull's early upbringing and laundromat business. Tull reflects on growing up poor and developing stoicism.5:56–9:34 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Evolving Motivations and Mindset Around Wealth Tull reframes money as providing freedom of choice rather than status. Harry asks a follow-up about whether the fear of poverty persists despite wealth.9:34–13:24 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Personal Boundaries, Relationships, and Work-Life Transition Harry asks for direct personal advice regarding work-life balance and fear of mediocrity. Tull acts as a mentor, advising him on establishing clear principles and leveraging network efficiency.13:24–16:08 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Learning from High Performers and Defining Achievement Harry asks Tull about his interactions with top performers and turns the question back onto Tull's own achievements.16:08–21:06 · Harry pushing back 1/10 The Interplay of Luck, Skill, and Iconic Media Projects Harry asks Tull to differentiate moments of skill versus luck in his career. Tull emphasizes universal luck in partnering with Christopher Nolan while highlighting the skill behind film projects.21:06–25:23 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Tullco's Holding Company Model and Informed Risk Taking Harry demonstrates sector knowledge by asking how Tullco's holding company structure interacts with traditional venture capital funds. Tull outlines why he prefers using his own balance sheet.25:23–31:04 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Business Velocity, Societal Challenges, and Future Optimism Tull discusses business velocity, social polarization, and optimism regarding biotech and the younger generation.31:04–35:39 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Quickfire Insights on Habits, Investments, and Market Dynamics In the quickfire section, Tull shares book recommendations, investing misses, and notes the irrationality of public markets using the Peloton example.

speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%0:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%3:00 · Harry 27.4% · guest 72.6%3:00 · Harry 27.4% · guest 72.6%6:00 · Harry 13.4% · guest 86.6%6:00 · Harry 13.4% · guest 86.6%9:00 · Harry 24.6% · guest 75.4%9:00 · Harry 24.6% · guest 75.4%12:00 · Harry 10.7% · guest 89.3%12:00 · Harry 10.7% · guest 89.3%15:00 · Harry 16.1% · guest 83.9%15:00 · Harry 16.1% · guest 83.9%18:00 · Harry 11.9% · guest 88.1%18:00 · Harry 11.9% · guest 88.1%21:00 · Harry 15.2% · guest 84.8%21:00 · Harry 15.2% · guest 84.8%24:00 · Harry 15.6% · guest 84.4%24:00 · Harry 15.6% · guest 84.4%27:00 · Harry 17.4% · guest 82.6%27:00 · Harry 17.4% · guest 82.6%30:00 · Harry 10% · guest 90%30:00 · Harry 10% · guest 90%33:00 · Harry 25.9% · guest 74.1%33:00 · Harry 25.9% · guest 74.1%36:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%36:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:43 Direct reframe on money and happiness

Thomas explicitly counters a common perspective by stating that anyone who says money doesn't matter hasn't experienced reality, asserting its importance for personal freedom.

 Hardest push from Harry ▶ 8:35 Pressing on persistent fear of poverty

Harry interrupts to press Thomas on whether the deep-seated fear of losing wealth still persists even after achieving immense financial success.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:39 Mentorship on leverage vs pure grinding

Thomas educates Harry on career evolution, explaining how experience allows transition from pure effort to pattern recognition and network leverage.

 Harry holds his own ▶ 23:32 Probing venture capital market dynamics

Harry uses his venture capital domain knowledge to challenge how Tullco's holding company model interacts with standard fund dynamics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicHarry as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementHarry pushing backWhy
Show Sponsors and Episode Bumper 0000 This segment is an intro bumper and sponsor read by the host with no guest participation.
Early Entrepreneurship and Developing Resilience 1200 Harry asks open questions about Thomas Tull's early upbringing and laundromat business. Tull reflects on growing up poor and developing stoicism.
Evolving Motivations and Mindset Around Wealth 1311 Tull reframes money as providing freedom of choice rather than status. Harry asks a follow-up about whether the fear of poverty persists despite wealth.
Personal Boundaries, Relationships, and Work-Life Transition 1400 Harry asks for direct personal advice regarding work-life balance and fear of mediocrity. Tull acts as a mentor, advising him on establishing clear principles and leveraging network efficiency.
Learning from High Performers and Defining Achievement 2311 Harry asks Tull about his interactions with top performers and turns the question back onto Tull's own achievements.
The Interplay of Luck, Skill, and Iconic Media Projects 2301 Harry asks Tull to differentiate moments of skill versus luck in his career. Tull emphasizes universal luck in partnering with Christopher Nolan while highlighting the skill behind film projects.
Tullco's Holding Company Model and Informed Risk Taking 3301 Harry demonstrates sector knowledge by asking how Tullco's holding company structure interacts with traditional venture capital funds. Tull outlines why he prefers using his own balance sheet.
Business Velocity, Societal Challenges, and Future Optimism 2211 Tull discusses business velocity, social polarization, and optimism regarding biotech and the younger generation.
Quickfire Insights on Habits, Investments, and Market Dynamics 2300 In the quickfire section, Tull shares book recommendations, investing misses, and notes the irrationality of public markets using the Peloton example.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Thomas Tull applied dynamic pricing to laundromats early in his career
“And, you know, so the area I grew up in was economically challenged and needed laundromats. Tried to apply some innovation to laundromats with dynamic Pricing and some other things.”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 4:02
Disclosure
Thomas Tull says growing up poor leaves lasting fear of losing wealth
“If you grow up poor, at least for me, there's always this odd thing where you're afraid that it's going to be taken away.”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 8:26
Insight
Thomas Tull says success shifts founders from grinding to pattern recognition
“The older that you get and the more success that you get under your belt, like anything else, you can go from just grinding all the time to pattern recognition.”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 12:03
Assertion Contradicted
Thomas Tull launched Legendary Entertainment with zero prior media experience
“I started Legendary Entertainment with zero experience in media. Zero.”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 18:09
Opinion
Thomas Tull calls Legendary's early Batman partnership with Christopher Nolan pure luck
“So in terms of pure luck, meeting a young director named Chris Nolan, and being able to, you know, to start off legendary with doing Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, and some other movies with Chris Nolan, that's pure luck.”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 18:33
Prediction Didn’t hold up
Tullco guarantees full follow-on capital for portfolio companies until IPO or exit
“We tell the companies that, you know, you really don't have to raise capital again. We'll provide the capital that you need until we get to a place where you're going to go public or You know, something's going to happen”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 24:10
Insight
Thomas Tull warns founders against maintaining failing theses just to show grit
“You can't just keep banging your head against the wall just to say, I'm showing grit. I'm being persistent.”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 26:19
Disclosure
Thomas Tull passed on early Uber and Airbnb investments
“I had an opportunity to invest in Uber and Airbnb early. And to be honest, I completely missed the shared economy. I just thought, that's strange. You know, you would go and rent someone's room or you would, and obviously completely blew that and didn't have a…”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 33:07
Disclosure
Thomas Tull invested heavily in Genies while avoiding direct cryptocurrency exposure
“With the crypto stuff, I don't own a lot of it. I'm a big investor in Genies, which is, you know, a company here in the States that everything from intelligent emojis to NFT and sort of web three O stuff. But I haven't gone deeply into the crypto stuff just be…”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 33:26
Opinion
Thomas Tull argues public markets are completely disconnected from actual company value
“The public markets to me are completely disconnected from reality, good and bad.”
Thomas Tull Apr 4, 2022 ▶ 34:08
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 1,200 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more