Aug 28, 2017 · 28m · 20vc
20VC: The First ICO Blockchain Incubator Ever, Why ICO's Will Change The World of Venture As We Know It & How The M&A Market Will Respond To ICO's with Mike, Jones, Co-Founder @ Science Inc
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In this episode of The Twenty Minute VC, host Harry Stebbings interviews Mike Jones, co-founder and CEO of Science Inc., about launching the world's first tokenized incubator fund, Science Blockchain. Jones shares insights on token mechanics, institutional crypto adoption, the disruption of traditional venture capital, and the future of tech M&A.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 29% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Harry as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 4.7 Guest disagreement 0.8 Harry pushing back 2.0
speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 21:47 Rejection of the binary Filecoin thesis
Mike explicitly rejects Harry's framing that the success or failure of Filecoin will determine the fate of the entire ICO market, stating 'I don't believe in that binary nature' and explaining the broader global capital dynamics.
Hardest push from Harry ▶ 21:25 Challenging ICO market durability with Filecoin thesisHarry brings up a prior guest's stark warning that the ICO market face a binary cratering event based on Filecoin, directly challenging Mike's optimistic market expansion narrative.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 22:50 Global capital distribution vs Silicon Valley VC assumptionsMike educates Harry on how international capital drives 80-90% of ICOs, explaining that Beijing family offices and non-US investors use ICOs to bypass Silicon Valley VC access barriers.
Harry holds his own ▶ 25:22 Direct stance on Bitcoin price betHarry asserts his own market view by taking the opposing side of a bet against Mike, confidently predicting Bitcoin will be below $4,000 in one year.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Harry as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Harry pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Jones' Journey into Early-Stage Investing and Recent Exits | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Harry welcomes Mike and prompts him to share his background and recent exits before transitioning into the Science Blockchain ICO. Mike educates the audience and host on the foundational differences between utility tokens and securitized tokens using a domain name market analogy. Harry mostly listens and guides the conversation with open questions without offering pushback. | |
| The Innovative Structure of the Science Blockchain Token | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Mike explains the mechanic of distributing portfolio tokens directly to Science Blockchain token holders. When Harry assumes this provides immediate liquidity, Mike gently reframes the point, clarifying that it provides individual control rather than guaranteed liquidity. Harry references commentary from Science partner Peter to discuss return mechanisms and crypto wealth cycles. | |
| Evaluating ICO Investments and Risks in a Fast-Moving Market | 4 | 6 | 0 | 2 | Harry sets up a scenario as a traditional money manager at Fidelity seeking allocation advice in crypto. Mike outlines four distinct challenges that traditional VCs face when evaluating ICOs, including high speed, technical complexity, and shorter liquidity horizons compared to 5-7 year venture cycles. Harry follows up by asking whether these dynamics reflect a 'Wild West' market environment. | |
| How ICOs Transform Venture Capital and M&A Dynamics | 5 | 5 | 0 | 2 | Harry cites Andy from Union Square Ventures to ask whether ICOs are a substitute or complement to traditional venture capital, and later raises the question of M&A market compatibility. Mike outlines the specific technical criteria required for an ICO to make sense and acknowledges that corporate M&A for tokenized startups remains an unsolved question. The dynamic is collaborative and analytical. | |
| Science Blockchain Management Structure and Global Market Scale | 5 | 6 | 3 | 4 | Harry asks about management fee structures before citing a previous guest's claim that Filecoin's ICO outcome is a binary inflection point that could crater the crypto venture market. Mike explicitly rejects this binary premise, explaining that international capital and broader utility insulate the $142 billion market from single-project failures. Harry's usage of a counter-thesis creates the highest host pushback of the episode. | |
| Quickfire Round: Books, Partnerships, Bets, and Investment Focus | 5 | 1 | 1 | 3 | In the quickfire round, Harry and Mike cover favorite books, partnership dynamics, and recent investments. Harry directly challenges Mike's bullish outlook on Bitcoin by taking the opposite side of a $4,000 price bet within a year. The exchange is lighthearted but shows host confidence. |
Statements from this episode (13)
Science Inc. operates crypto mines and holds cryptocurrency long-term
“We originally had set up mines, we had invested in a few companies, and we're kind of long-term holders of crypto.”
Jones: Daily utility ICOs in 2017 raise between $10M and $500M
“There is basically a giant token sale, at least one happening every single day, to the tunes of Ten million dollars up to five hundred million dollars.”
Jones: Blockchain Capital pioneered legally compliant tokenized venture funds
“Where blockchain capital raised a portion of their venture fund through a token sale. And they were one of the first groups that figured out the legal process of setting this up and tokenizing their investment vehicle.”
Science Blockchain token holders directly receive tokens from incubated startups
“If you're a qualified US investor, and you happen to own or buy one of our tokens, and you have it then sitting in your, you know, Ethereum qualified wallet, what that means is over time, as we incubate businesses, and if those businesses also run their own to…”
Jones: 65 registered hedge funds are raising for crypto allocations in 2017
“In fact, I believe this week there was an article released that showed there were 65 pending registered hedge funds that were in the process of completing their raises to move dollars into the crypto market,”
Jones predicts traditional LPs will move capital into crypto by late 2017
“And I believe that we're seeing, within months, this third phase of wealth moving into crypto, which will be traditional LPs and investors finding managers they trust, like us, to basically move large amounts of exposure into crypto. And that will, you know, c…”
Jones: Most ICOs will fail, but surviving tokens will be extremely valuable
“I don't think it's going away. I certainly believe there will be tons of these ICOs that will fail, and their token value may also fail, but I think there'll also be winners, and those winners will be really valuable.”
Jones: Tokenization and ICOs will fundamentally change early-stage venture capital
“It is going to change venture. I mean, it has changed venture. It's just, if I look at my investing activities over the last six months since we've been participating in this, it's changed the way I think about equity and the way I think about early stage comp…”
Jones: 11 crypto tokens exceed $1 billion valuations in August 2017
“There's 11 tokens now that have greater than a billion dollar value with a substantial amount of daily circulating liquidity within the token sale marketplaces.”
Jones: A Filecoin ICO failure will not destroy the broader crypto market
“I don't believe in that binary nature. I think that the ICO slash irrevocable token transfer vehicle that we're witnessing right now has applicability in lots of areas... If they aren't successful, I don't believe that will pull down. I mean, it may have a fin…”
Jones: 80% to 90% of ICO capital originates outside the US
“80 to 90% of these ICOs are raising more capital internationally than they are in the U.S.”
Jones: Core crypto developer discourse occurs in hard-to-find private Telegram groups
“I'm very engaged on Telegram, and there's a ton of very hard-to-find groups where the miners and the core blockchain developers and Bitcoin enthusiasts share ideas. I spent a lot of time in those Telegram groups.”