Apr 4, 2016 · 25m · 20vc

20VC: Greylock's Josh Elman on Why We Are Not In A Consumer Downturn, The Next Wave Of Social and What Twitter Should Do Next

Josh Elman · 17m spoken Harry Stebbings · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The 20 Minute VC, host Harry Stebbings interviews Greylock partner Josh Elman about his career scaling iconic products at LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter, his frameworks for evaluating user engagement, and his perspective on emerging consumer social trends.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 27.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Harry as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 3.4 Guest disagreement 1.3 Harry pushing back 1.0
05100:0010:0020:002:08–4:44 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Josh Elman's Early Career and Transition to VC Harry asks friendly background questions about Josh's career transition from engineering at early internet companies to venture capital. Josh walks through his history at Real Networks, LinkedIn, and Twitter.4:44–9:38 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Product Scaling Frameworks and Twitter's Path Forward Harry brings up Twitter Head of Product Jeff Seibert to frame a question around product changes for Twitter. Josh explains feed tuning frameworks and the ladder of engagement.9:39–13:33 · Harry as informed peer 4/10 Debunking the Consumer Mobile Downturn and Measuring Engagement Harry challenges Josh using Fred Wilson's mobile downturn thesis. Josh disagrees, explaining that mobile growth requires tapping into distinct human behaviors rather than broad generic messaging.13:33–16:45 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Emerging Social Interfaces: Discord, Video Creation, and Operator Harry inquires about emerging social media categories and Operator's business model. Josh outlines the value of live shared experiences like Discord and human-expert conversational commerce.16:45–19:53 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Investment Thesis Evolution and Key Venture Capital Challenges Harry asks about thesis evolution and key VC challenges. Josh reframes the founder-investor relationship as executive hiring rather than transactional fundraising.19:53–24:00 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Quick Fire Round: Books, Launches, Mentors, and Discord In the quick fire round, Josh discusses favorite books, mentors, and recent investments. He offers counter-consensus insights on investing in desktop apps like Discord.24:02–25:38 · Harry as informed peer 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Preview of Upcoming Features Harry concludes the episode with host wrap-up comments, podcast announcements, and an advertisement for Leesa mattresses.2:08–4:44 · Guest teaching 2/10 Josh Elman's Early Career and Transition to VC Harry asks friendly background questions about Josh's career transition from engineering at early internet companies to venture capital. Josh walks through his history at Real Networks, LinkedIn, and Twitter.4:44–9:38 · Guest teaching 4/10 Product Scaling Frameworks and Twitter's Path Forward Harry brings up Twitter Head of Product Jeff Seibert to frame a question around product changes for Twitter. Josh explains feed tuning frameworks and the ladder of engagement.9:39–13:33 · Guest teaching 5/10 Debunking the Consumer Mobile Downturn and Measuring Engagement Harry challenges Josh using Fred Wilson's mobile downturn thesis. Josh disagrees, explaining that mobile growth requires tapping into distinct human behaviors rather than broad generic messaging.13:33–16:45 · Guest teaching 4/10 Emerging Social Interfaces: Discord, Video Creation, and Operator Harry inquires about emerging social media categories and Operator's business model. Josh outlines the value of live shared experiences like Discord and human-expert conversational commerce.16:45–19:53 · Guest teaching 5/10 Investment Thesis Evolution and Key Venture Capital Challenges Harry asks about thesis evolution and key VC challenges. Josh reframes the founder-investor relationship as executive hiring rather than transactional fundraising.19:53–24:00 · Guest teaching 4/10 Quick Fire Round: Books, Launches, Mentors, and Discord In the quick fire round, Josh discusses favorite books, mentors, and recent investments. He offers counter-consensus insights on investing in desktop apps like Discord.24:02–25:38 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Preview of Upcoming Features Harry concludes the episode with host wrap-up comments, podcast announcements, and an advertisement for Leesa mattresses.2:08–4:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Josh Elman's Early Career and Transition to VC Harry asks friendly background questions about Josh's career transition from engineering at early internet companies to venture capital. Josh walks through his history at Real Networks, LinkedIn, and Twitter.4:44–9:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Product Scaling Frameworks and Twitter's Path Forward Harry brings up Twitter Head of Product Jeff Seibert to frame a question around product changes for Twitter. Josh explains feed tuning frameworks and the ladder of engagement.9:39–13:33 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Debunking the Consumer Mobile Downturn and Measuring Engagement Harry challenges Josh using Fred Wilson's mobile downturn thesis. Josh disagrees, explaining that mobile growth requires tapping into distinct human behaviors rather than broad generic messaging.13:33–16:45 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Emerging Social Interfaces: Discord, Video Creation, and Operator Harry inquires about emerging social media categories and Operator's business model. Josh outlines the value of live shared experiences like Discord and human-expert conversational commerce.16:45–19:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Investment Thesis Evolution and Key Venture Capital Challenges Harry asks about thesis evolution and key VC challenges. Josh reframes the founder-investor relationship as executive hiring rather than transactional fundraising.19:53–24:00 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Quick Fire Round: Books, Launches, Mentors, and Discord In the quick fire round, Josh discusses favorite books, mentors, and recent investments. He offers counter-consensus insights on investing in desktop apps like Discord.24:02–25:38 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Preview of Upcoming Features Harry concludes the episode with host wrap-up comments, podcast announcements, and an advertisement for Leesa mattresses.2:08–4:44 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Josh Elman's Early Career and Transition to VC Harry asks friendly background questions about Josh's career transition from engineering at early internet companies to venture capital. Josh walks through his history at Real Networks, LinkedIn, and Twitter.4:44–9:38 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Product Scaling Frameworks and Twitter's Path Forward Harry brings up Twitter Head of Product Jeff Seibert to frame a question around product changes for Twitter. Josh explains feed tuning frameworks and the ladder of engagement.9:39–13:33 · Harry pushing back 3/10 Debunking the Consumer Mobile Downturn and Measuring Engagement Harry challenges Josh using Fred Wilson's mobile downturn thesis. Josh disagrees, explaining that mobile growth requires tapping into distinct human behaviors rather than broad generic messaging.13:33–16:45 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Emerging Social Interfaces: Discord, Video Creation, and Operator Harry inquires about emerging social media categories and Operator's business model. Josh outlines the value of live shared experiences like Discord and human-expert conversational commerce.16:45–19:53 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Investment Thesis Evolution and Key Venture Capital Challenges Harry asks about thesis evolution and key VC challenges. Josh reframes the founder-investor relationship as executive hiring rather than transactional fundraising.19:53–24:00 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Quick Fire Round: Books, Launches, Mentors, and Discord In the quick fire round, Josh discusses favorite books, mentors, and recent investments. He offers counter-consensus insights on investing in desktop apps like Discord.24:02–25:38 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Preview of Upcoming Features Harry concludes the episode with host wrap-up comments, podcast announcements, and an advertisement for Leesa mattresses.

speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Harry 85.8% · guest 14.2%0:00 · Harry 85.8% · guest 14.2%3:00 · Harry 13.6% · guest 86.4%3:00 · Harry 13.6% · guest 86.4%6:00 · Harry 10.8% · guest 89.2%6:00 · Harry 10.8% · guest 89.2%9:00 · Harry 17.7% · guest 82.3%9:00 · Harry 17.7% · guest 82.3%12:00 · Harry 13.8% · guest 86.2%12:00 · Harry 13.8% · guest 86.2%15:00 · Harry 20.6% · guest 79.4%15:00 · Harry 20.6% · guest 79.4%18:00 · Harry 4.2% · guest 95.8%18:00 · Harry 4.2% · guest 95.8%21:00 · Harry 11% · guest 89%21:00 · Harry 11% · guest 89%24:00 · Harry 99.6% · guest 0.4%24:00 · Harry 99.6% · guest 0.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:02 Rejecting Fred Wilson's Mobile Downturn Thesis

Josh directly refutes Fred Wilson's article on the mobile downturn, contending that mobile is vibrant for products tapping new emotional connection behaviors.

Hardest push from Harry ▶ 9:39 Challenging Consumer Mobile Market Viability

Harry uses Fred Wilson's widely cited post to press Josh on why consumer mobile apps are struggling, forcing him to defend consumer investing.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:51 Reframing App Traction Metrics

Josh corrects standard metrics thinking by explaining that cluster dominance and local group conversion are far more telling than top-line aggregate daily active user stats.

Harry holds his own ▶ 5:52 Leveraging Direct Access to Twitter's Head of Product

Harry leverages his relationship with Twitter's Head of Product Jeff Seibert to pitch a targeted product strategy question directly to Josh.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicHarry as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementHarry pushing backWhy
Josh Elman's Early Career and Transition to VC 1200 Harry asks friendly background questions about Josh's career transition from engineering at early internet companies to venture capital. Josh walks through his history at Real Networks, LinkedIn, and Twitter.
Product Scaling Frameworks and Twitter's Path Forward 3411 Harry brings up Twitter Head of Product Jeff Seibert to frame a question around product changes for Twitter. Josh explains feed tuning frameworks and the ladder of engagement.
Debunking the Consumer Mobile Downturn and Measuring Engagement 4533 Harry challenges Josh using Fred Wilson's mobile downturn thesis. Josh disagrees, explaining that mobile growth requires tapping into distinct human behaviors rather than broad generic messaging.
Emerging Social Interfaces: Discord, Video Creation, and Operator 2411 Harry inquires about emerging social media categories and Operator's business model. Josh outlines the value of live shared experiences like Discord and human-expert conversational commerce.
Investment Thesis Evolution and Key Venture Capital Challenges 2521 Harry asks about thesis evolution and key VC challenges. Josh reframes the founder-investor relationship as executive hiring rather than transactional fundraising.
Quick Fire Round: Books, Launches, Mentors, and Discord 2421 In the quick fire round, Josh discusses favorite books, mentors, and recent investments. He offers counter-consensus insights on investing in desktop apps like Discord.
Episode Conclusion and Preview of Upcoming Features 0000 Harry concludes the episode with host wrap-up comments, podcast announcements, and an advertisement for Leesa mattresses.

Statements from this episode (6)

Disclosure
Elman reveals he was kicked out of Twitter during product restructuring
“And then, you know, I honestly got kicked out of Twitter. You know, I in some of the turmoil of Twitter, they were restructuring the product team and asked me not to go to work the next day.”
Josh Elman Apr 4, 2016 ▶ 4:07
Opinion
Elman: Twitter Should Let Users Follow Broad Topics Instead of Accounts
“Most people cannot figure out how to get their Twitter tuned. I call it tuning your Twitter feed in the same way that I have. And so I really think what they can do to make Twitter much, much easier is help people tune it much more broadly.”
Josh Elman Apr 4, 2016 ▶ 6:47
Opinion
Elman: Consumer mobile is not in a downturn, just well-served
“So I don't believe we're in a downturn. I just believe we're, we have some markets that are very well served by ways that we can connect and talk to our friends and family, and you have to tap into something new and something very different in order to get big…”
Josh Elman Apr 4, 2016 ▶ 11:29
Insight
Elman: Great founders treat fundraising as hiring an investor
“I see a lot of founders try to engineer a process instead of necessarily figure out who they really want to team up with and work with. And the great ones I think actually have in their mindset I'm going out to hire an investor.”
Josh Elman Apr 4, 2016 ▶ 18:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Elman: 10% of early Discord users spent 10 hours daily on app
“There were 10% of the users were using, you know, had it on and were interacting with it for 10 hours a day.”
Josh Elman Apr 4, 2016 ▶ 22:48
Assertion Supported
Elman: Global video game spending exceeds movies and music
“The amount spent on games as an entertainment, it's actually bigger than movies worldwide, And it's certainly bigger than music.”
Josh Elman Apr 4, 2016 ▶ 23:22
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