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Jan 4, 2016 · 23m · 20vc

20 VC: Morten Lund on Skype, Bankruptcy, Fintech and Why "Banks Are Full Of Lots Of Stupid People Doing Nothing"

Morten Lund · 16m spoken Harry Stebbings · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The 20 Minute VC, host Harry Stebbings interviews serial entrepreneur Morten Lund about his early seed investment in Skype, experiencing personal bankruptcy after accumulating $150 million, and building billion-dollar B2B fintech platforms like Tradeshift. Lund also shares insights on European banking, founder traits, and his social impact initiative CodersTrust.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 25.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Harry as informed peer 2.7 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 2.0 Harry pushing back 1.7
05100:0010:0020:002:07–4:10 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Morten Lund's Tech Beginnings and Early Career Harry asks open conversational questions about Morten's tech career origins and university departure. Morten casually explains his early agency days and getting kicked out of university for being impatient and annoying.4:10–8:16 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 The Skype Origin and Early Growth Story Harry sets a light target rule of one-minute answers per major topic. When Harry cites a rumored 50k to 50M return on Skype, Morten corrects the figure and deflects glory to the Estonian technical team.8:16–10:23 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Facing Bankruptcy and Gaining Financial Perspective Harry apologizes for exceeding the time cap and asks about Morten's bankruptcy experience. Morten offers reflective insights on financial literacy and needing a reality check after early rapid success.10:23–15:47 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Qualities of Exceptional Founders and Team Members Harry prompts Morten on founder traits and the origins of TradeShift. Morten uses blunt language, claiming banks spend billions because they are full of stupid people doing nothing, while explaining B2B SaaS network dynamics.15:47–18:03 · Harry as informed peer 5/10 European Fintech Landscape and the Unicorn Mentality Harry references Morten's prior interview with Mike Butcher regarding European exit strategies. When Morten casually remarks 'God forbid a unicorn', Harry immediately challenges him to defend the statement.18:03–20:34 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 CodersTrust and Social Impact Goals Morten details his ambition to win a Nobel Prize through CodersTrust micro-education loans. Harry asks an insightful macroeconomic question about creating a developing-world middle class.20:34–23:06 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Quick Fire Round and Hippocorn Project Harry runs through rapid-fire questions covering favorite books and investors. Morten explains his Hippocorn project, describing it as an affiliate system for dealmaking.2:07–4:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 Morten Lund's Tech Beginnings and Early Career Harry asks open conversational questions about Morten's tech career origins and university departure. Morten casually explains his early agency days and getting kicked out of university for being impatient and annoying.4:10–8:16 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Skype Origin and Early Growth Story Harry sets a light target rule of one-minute answers per major topic. When Harry cites a rumored 50k to 50M return on Skype, Morten corrects the figure and deflects glory to the Estonian technical team.8:16–10:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 Facing Bankruptcy and Gaining Financial Perspective Harry apologizes for exceeding the time cap and asks about Morten's bankruptcy experience. Morten offers reflective insights on financial literacy and needing a reality check after early rapid success.10:23–15:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Qualities of Exceptional Founders and Team Members Harry prompts Morten on founder traits and the origins of TradeShift. Morten uses blunt language, claiming banks spend billions because they are full of stupid people doing nothing, while explaining B2B SaaS network dynamics.15:47–18:03 · Guest teaching 4/10 European Fintech Landscape and the Unicorn Mentality Harry references Morten's prior interview with Mike Butcher regarding European exit strategies. When Morten casually remarks 'God forbid a unicorn', Harry immediately challenges him to defend the statement.18:03–20:34 · Guest teaching 3/10 CodersTrust and Social Impact Goals Morten details his ambition to win a Nobel Prize through CodersTrust micro-education loans. Harry asks an insightful macroeconomic question about creating a developing-world middle class.20:34–23:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Quick Fire Round and Hippocorn Project Harry runs through rapid-fire questions covering favorite books and investors. Morten explains his Hippocorn project, describing it as an affiliate system for dealmaking.2:07–4:10 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Morten Lund's Tech Beginnings and Early Career Harry asks open conversational questions about Morten's tech career origins and university departure. Morten casually explains his early agency days and getting kicked out of university for being impatient and annoying.4:10–8:16 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Skype Origin and Early Growth Story Harry sets a light target rule of one-minute answers per major topic. When Harry cites a rumored 50k to 50M return on Skype, Morten corrects the figure and deflects glory to the Estonian technical team.8:16–10:23 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Facing Bankruptcy and Gaining Financial Perspective Harry apologizes for exceeding the time cap and asks about Morten's bankruptcy experience. Morten offers reflective insights on financial literacy and needing a reality check after early rapid success.10:23–15:47 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Qualities of Exceptional Founders and Team Members Harry prompts Morten on founder traits and the origins of TradeShift. Morten uses blunt language, claiming banks spend billions because they are full of stupid people doing nothing, while explaining B2B SaaS network dynamics.15:47–18:03 · Guest disagreement 3/10 European Fintech Landscape and the Unicorn Mentality Harry references Morten's prior interview with Mike Butcher regarding European exit strategies. When Morten casually remarks 'God forbid a unicorn', Harry immediately challenges him to defend the statement.18:03–20:34 · Guest disagreement 2/10 CodersTrust and Social Impact Goals Morten details his ambition to win a Nobel Prize through CodersTrust micro-education loans. Harry asks an insightful macroeconomic question about creating a developing-world middle class.20:34–23:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Quick Fire Round and Hippocorn Project Harry runs through rapid-fire questions covering favorite books and investors. Morten explains his Hippocorn project, describing it as an affiliate system for dealmaking.2:07–4:10 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Morten Lund's Tech Beginnings and Early Career Harry asks open conversational questions about Morten's tech career origins and university departure. Morten casually explains his early agency days and getting kicked out of university for being impatient and annoying.4:10–8:16 · Harry pushing back 2/10 The Skype Origin and Early Growth Story Harry sets a light target rule of one-minute answers per major topic. When Harry cites a rumored 50k to 50M return on Skype, Morten corrects the figure and deflects glory to the Estonian technical team.8:16–10:23 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Facing Bankruptcy and Gaining Financial Perspective Harry apologizes for exceeding the time cap and asks about Morten's bankruptcy experience. Morten offers reflective insights on financial literacy and needing a reality check after early rapid success.10:23–15:47 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Qualities of Exceptional Founders and Team Members Harry prompts Morten on founder traits and the origins of TradeShift. Morten uses blunt language, claiming banks spend billions because they are full of stupid people doing nothing, while explaining B2B SaaS network dynamics.15:47–18:03 · Harry pushing back 5/10 European Fintech Landscape and the Unicorn Mentality Harry references Morten's prior interview with Mike Butcher regarding European exit strategies. When Morten casually remarks 'God forbid a unicorn', Harry immediately challenges him to defend the statement.18:03–20:34 · Harry pushing back 2/10 CodersTrust and Social Impact Goals Morten details his ambition to win a Nobel Prize through CodersTrust micro-education loans. Harry asks an insightful macroeconomic question about creating a developing-world middle class.20:34–23:06 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Quick Fire Round and Hippocorn Project Harry runs through rapid-fire questions covering favorite books and investors. Morten explains his Hippocorn project, describing it as an affiliate system for dealmaking.

speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Harry 76.2% · guest 23.8%0:00 · Harry 76.2% · guest 23.8%3:00 · Harry 17.1% · guest 82.9%3:00 · Harry 17.1% · guest 82.9%6:00 · Harry 11% · guest 89%6:00 · Harry 11% · guest 89%9:00 · Harry 18.3% · guest 81.7%9:00 · Harry 18.3% · guest 81.7%12:00 · Harry 18.3% · guest 81.7%12:00 · Harry 18.3% · guest 81.7%15:00 · Harry 14% · guest 86%15:00 · Harry 14% · guest 86%18:00 · Harry 15.6% · guest 84.4%18:00 · Harry 15.6% · guest 84.4%21:00 · Harry 36.3% · guest 63.7%21:00 · Harry 36.3% · guest 63.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:30 Calling banks full of stupid people

Morten aggressively criticizes traditional financial institutions, asserting that massive banking IT budgets exist because banks are staffed by an immense number of stupid people doing nothing.

 Hardest push from Harry ▶ 17:39 Challenging the 'God forbid a unicorn' remark

Harry refuses to let Morten's offhand dismissiveness toward billion-dollar valuations pass, immediately interjecting to make him justify his stance.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:28 Correcting Skype return figures and giving technical credit

Morten corrects Harry's simplified narrative about his initial Skype investment yield and educates him on the indispensable role played by the Estonian developers.

 Harry holds his own ▶ 16:40 Citing Mike Butcher interview on European exits

Harry demonstrates strong preparation and industry knowledge by quoting Morten's past public remarks to TechCrunch journalist Mike Butcher about Silicon Valley acquisition realities.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicHarry as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementHarry pushing backWhy
Morten Lund's Tech Beginnings and Early Career 2221 Harry asks open conversational questions about Morten's tech career origins and university departure. Morten casually explains his early agency days and getting kicked out of university for being impatient and annoying.
The Skype Origin and Early Growth Story 2422 Harry sets a light target rule of one-minute answers per major topic. When Harry cites a rumored 50k to 50M return on Skype, Morten corrects the figure and deflects glory to the Estonian technical team.
Facing Bankruptcy and Gaining Financial Perspective 2311 Harry apologizes for exceeding the time cap and asks about Morten's bankruptcy experience. Morten offers reflective insights on financial literacy and needing a reality check after early rapid success.
Qualities of Exceptional Founders and Team Members 3431 Harry prompts Morten on founder traits and the origins of TradeShift. Morten uses blunt language, claiming banks spend billions because they are full of stupid people doing nothing, while explaining B2B SaaS network dynamics.
European Fintech Landscape and the Unicorn Mentality 5435 Harry references Morten's prior interview with Mike Butcher regarding European exit strategies. When Morten casually remarks 'God forbid a unicorn', Harry immediately challenges him to defend the statement.
CodersTrust and Social Impact Goals 3322 Morten details his ambition to win a Nobel Prize through CodersTrust micro-education loans. Harry asks an insightful macroeconomic question about creating a developing-world middle class.
Quick Fire Round and Hippocorn Project 2310 Harry runs through rapid-fire questions covering favorite books and investors. Morten explains his Hippocorn project, describing it as an affiliate system for dealmaking.

Statements from this episode (12)

Assertion Supported
Morten Lund lost $150 million and entered personal bankruptcy
“How he went from a hundred and fifty million to bankruptcy,”
Harry Stebbings Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 0:48
Assertion Partly supported
Morten Lund sold his digital agency to Leo Burnett as their first digital acquisition
“Seven, six years later, we sold it to Leo Burnett, the advertising company, as their first digital acquisition,”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 2:57
Disclosure
Why Morten Lund passed on investing in Kazaa
“They, you know, ended up calling me whether I wanted to invest in Kazaa, And I was not really convinced, convinced that it would be a healthy business because It was actually a business plan one-to-one with iTunes, but they didn't have, or we didn't have the n…”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 4:54
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Skype reached 400,000 users within 20 days of launch
“It was three, 400,000 users after 20 days, and the rest is more or less history.”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 6:11
What-if
Lund: Early financial knowledge would have stifled his entrepreneurial creativity
“I regret a little bit that I didn't understand it earlier, but then I probably, I wouldn't have had my full creativity.”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 10:11
Opinion
Banks spend $1B on tech because of incompetent staff
“Every bank, just to simplify it, every bank has a budget of a billion a year in technology spend, yeah? Mostly because they have an immense amount of stupid people running around doing nothing.”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 12:39
Insight
Lund: Enterprise fintech growth depends on closing massive initial clients
“The ability to close huge clients, because the whole equation wouldn't work unless you had some really, really large companies who would, you know, buy into this vision, even though it was a very unstable young company. And that, I think, was the founder's, yo…”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 14:16
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Legacy bank contracts with IBM will unwind, creating fintech opportunities
“The web bank is a media, and nobody's using it as a media, and it could do a lot of interesting things, from accounting to all kind of interesting things, and the banks are just sleeping, and they're locked in in stupid contracts with IBM, managing their whole…”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 16:19
Assertion Contradicted
European startups seeking billion-dollar exits must sell in Silicon Valley
“Well, you endgame, you have to take a plane to San Fran at some point to sell your company, because nobody can swallow a company in Europe over, you know, a billion dollars.”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 16:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lund: CodersTrust educates 500 to 700 students per month
“And I think we're educating five, 407 hundred people per month now on, on the, on this scheme.”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 18:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lund: CodersTrust increases student wages from $1 to $7–$9 hourly
“So a hundred bucks per month for six to nine months. Then they can go basically from one dollar per hour to seven, eight, nine dollars per hour.”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 18:51
Opinion
The Scandinavian middle class faces a dark future without growth
“Here in Scandinavia, the middle class is, is not super happy because there's no growth. They're, they just have what they have, but there's a pretty dark future.”
Morten Lund Jan 4, 2016 ▶ 19:58
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