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Jan 17, 2019 · 30m · mad

Fireside Chat: Nick Rockwell, CTO of The New York Times (FirstMark's Data Driven NYC)

Nick Rockwell · 17m spoken Matt Turck · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this Data Driven NYC fireside chat hosted by Matt Turck, New York Times CTO Nick Rockwell discusses the publisher's digital subscriber growth, cloud infrastructure migration, engineering team culture, and AI-driven digitization of their historic photo archive.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Matt holds 18.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Matt as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 1.4 Matt pushing back 1.2
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:09–3:33 · Matt as informed peer 5/10 Discussion on New York Times Digital Growth and Hiring Matt comes prepared with precise stats from NYT earnings reports and Twitter regarding subscriber metrics and engineering hiring. Nick gently corrects the timeline regarding the Trump bump, clarifying that real subscriber momentum continued into 2018.3:33–7:26 · Matt as informed peer 0/10 Video Feature: Digitizing The New York Times Photo Archive This segment consists almost entirely of a played promotional video highlighting the New York Times photo archive digitization project. As a pre-recorded monologue, host participation scores are zero.7:26–13:18 · Matt as informed peer 4/10 Deep Dive into 'The Morgue' Digitization and Machine Learning Matt asks specific technical questions regarding Google Spanner and machine learning usage, while questioning if photo scanning is really done by hand. Nick explains the technical limitations of scanning delicate historical photos and how ML extracts text and facial features.13:18–20:01 · Matt as informed peer 6/10 Cloud Migration and Modern Technology Stack Matt demonstrates high industry knowledge by citing Fastly, Kafka, ActionIQ, and recent licensing disputes between AWS and MongoDB. Nick provides strong commentary on cloud migration dynamics and declares that open source infrastructure models are losing out to cloud giants.20:01–26:12 · Matt as informed peer 5/10 Serverless Architecture, Org Structure, and Engineering Culture Matt references Nick's recent blog posts on serverless architecture and engineering org structure. Nick strongly criticizes AWS's traditional instance-based pricing model as wasteful while explaining how NYT restructured engineering culture like code.0:09–3:33 · Guest teaching 4/10 Discussion on New York Times Digital Growth and Hiring Matt comes prepared with precise stats from NYT earnings reports and Twitter regarding subscriber metrics and engineering hiring. Nick gently corrects the timeline regarding the Trump bump, clarifying that real subscriber momentum continued into 2018.3:33–7:26 · Guest teaching 2/10 Video Feature: Digitizing The New York Times Photo Archive This segment consists almost entirely of a played promotional video highlighting the New York Times photo archive digitization project. As a pre-recorded monologue, host participation scores are zero.7:26–13:18 · Guest teaching 5/10 Deep Dive into 'The Morgue' Digitization and Machine Learning Matt asks specific technical questions regarding Google Spanner and machine learning usage, while questioning if photo scanning is really done by hand. Nick explains the technical limitations of scanning delicate historical photos and how ML extracts text and facial features.13:18–20:01 · Guest teaching 6/10 Cloud Migration and Modern Technology Stack Matt demonstrates high industry knowledge by citing Fastly, Kafka, ActionIQ, and recent licensing disputes between AWS and MongoDB. Nick provides strong commentary on cloud migration dynamics and declares that open source infrastructure models are losing out to cloud giants.20:01–26:12 · Guest teaching 6/10 Serverless Architecture, Org Structure, and Engineering Culture Matt references Nick's recent blog posts on serverless architecture and engineering org structure. Nick strongly criticizes AWS's traditional instance-based pricing model as wasteful while explaining how NYT restructured engineering culture like code.0:09–3:33 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Discussion on New York Times Digital Growth and Hiring Matt comes prepared with precise stats from NYT earnings reports and Twitter regarding subscriber metrics and engineering hiring. Nick gently corrects the timeline regarding the Trump bump, clarifying that real subscriber momentum continued into 2018.3:33–7:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Video Feature: Digitizing The New York Times Photo Archive This segment consists almost entirely of a played promotional video highlighting the New York Times photo archive digitization project. As a pre-recorded monologue, host participation scores are zero.7:26–13:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Deep Dive into 'The Morgue' Digitization and Machine Learning Matt asks specific technical questions regarding Google Spanner and machine learning usage, while questioning if photo scanning is really done by hand. Nick explains the technical limitations of scanning delicate historical photos and how ML extracts text and facial features.13:18–20:01 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Cloud Migration and Modern Technology Stack Matt demonstrates high industry knowledge by citing Fastly, Kafka, ActionIQ, and recent licensing disputes between AWS and MongoDB. Nick provides strong commentary on cloud migration dynamics and declares that open source infrastructure models are losing out to cloud giants.20:01–26:12 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Serverless Architecture, Org Structure, and Engineering Culture Matt references Nick's recent blog posts on serverless architecture and engineering org structure. Nick strongly criticizes AWS's traditional instance-based pricing model as wasteful while explaining how NYT restructured engineering culture like code.0:09–3:33 · Matt pushing back 1/10 Discussion on New York Times Digital Growth and Hiring Matt comes prepared with precise stats from NYT earnings reports and Twitter regarding subscriber metrics and engineering hiring. Nick gently corrects the timeline regarding the Trump bump, clarifying that real subscriber momentum continued into 2018.3:33–7:26 · Matt pushing back 0/10 Video Feature: Digitizing The New York Times Photo Archive This segment consists almost entirely of a played promotional video highlighting the New York Times photo archive digitization project. As a pre-recorded monologue, host participation scores are zero.7:26–13:18 · Matt pushing back 2/10 Deep Dive into 'The Morgue' Digitization and Machine Learning Matt asks specific technical questions regarding Google Spanner and machine learning usage, while questioning if photo scanning is really done by hand. Nick explains the technical limitations of scanning delicate historical photos and how ML extracts text and facial features.13:18–20:01 · Matt pushing back 2/10 Cloud Migration and Modern Technology Stack Matt demonstrates high industry knowledge by citing Fastly, Kafka, ActionIQ, and recent licensing disputes between AWS and MongoDB. Nick provides strong commentary on cloud migration dynamics and declares that open source infrastructure models are losing out to cloud giants.20:01–26:12 · Matt pushing back 1/10 Serverless Architecture, Org Structure, and Engineering Culture Matt references Nick's recent blog posts on serverless architecture and engineering org structure. Nick strongly criticizes AWS's traditional instance-based pricing model as wasteful while explaining how NYT restructured engineering culture like code.

speaking balance: gold is Matt, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Matt 45.7% · guest 54.3%0:00 · Matt 45.7% · guest 54.3%3:00 · Matt 15.1% · guest 84.9%3:00 · Matt 15.1% · guest 84.9%6:00 · Matt 6.2% · guest 93.8%6:00 · Matt 6.2% · guest 93.8%9:00 · Matt 14.8% · guest 85.2%9:00 · Matt 14.8% · guest 85.2%12:00 · Matt 18.8% · guest 81.2%12:00 · Matt 18.8% · guest 81.2%15:00 · Matt 29.2% · guest 70.8%15:00 · Matt 29.2% · guest 70.8%18:00 · Matt 18.5% · guest 81.5%18:00 · Matt 18.5% · guest 81.5%21:00 · Matt 26% · guest 74%21:00 · Matt 26% · guest 74%24:00 · Matt 1.6% · guest 98.4%24:00 · Matt 1.6% · guest 98.4%27:00 · Matt 0.7% · guest 99.3%27:00 · Matt 0.7% · guest 99.3%30:00 · Matt 52.9% · guest 47.1%30:00 · Matt 52.9% · guest 47.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 21:09 Critique of AWS core business model

Nick forcefully criticizes AWS's core instance-based revenue model, calling it uncool and predicated on selling customers compute capacity they barely use.

 Hardest push from Matt ▶ 11:36 Matt challenges archive scanning depiction

Matt refuses the assumption presented in the video clip, asking directly whether technicians are actually scanning millions of photos by hand rather than using automated machines.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:46 Explanation of fragile document scanning

Nick educates Matt on why copy-machine style automation cannot be used, explaining that century-old historical artifacts are far too delicate for mechanical feed scanners.

 Matt holds his own ▶ 17:27 Matt probes open-source cloud monetization conflicts

Matt displays deep domain knowledge by mentioning portfolio investments like ActionIQ and asking about AWS's contentious re-implementation of MongoDB open-source code.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicMatt as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementMatt pushing backWhy
Discussion on New York Times Digital Growth and Hiring 5411 Matt comes prepared with precise stats from NYT earnings reports and Twitter regarding subscriber metrics and engineering hiring. Nick gently corrects the timeline regarding the Trump bump, clarifying that real subscriber momentum continued into 2018.
Video Feature: Digitizing The New York Times Photo Archive 0200 This segment consists almost entirely of a played promotional video highlighting the New York Times photo archive digitization project. As a pre-recorded monologue, host participation scores are zero.
Deep Dive into 'The Morgue' Digitization and Machine Learning 4512 Matt asks specific technical questions regarding Google Spanner and machine learning usage, while questioning if photo scanning is really done by hand. Nick explains the technical limitations of scanning delicate historical photos and how ML extracts text and facial features.
Cloud Migration and Modern Technology Stack 6622 Matt demonstrates high industry knowledge by citing Fastly, Kafka, ActionIQ, and recent licensing disputes between AWS and MongoDB. Nick provides strong commentary on cloud migration dynamics and declares that open source infrastructure models are losing out to cloud giants.
Serverless Architecture, Org Structure, and Engineering Culture 5631 Matt references Nick's recent blog posts on serverless architecture and engineering org structure. Nick strongly criticizes AWS's traditional instance-based pricing model as wasteful while explaining how NYT restructured engineering culture like code.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Supported
The NYT had over 4 million paid subscribers in Q3 2018
“Yeah, a little higher than that one year, a bit higher. I think that was the third quarter number.”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 0:57
Opinion
NYT subscriber growth in 2018 extended beyond the 2017 'Trump bump'
“I think we really passed the Trump bump a while ago, probably even mid to late-thousand 17, so what we saw in 18 was something different was actually, I think, real momentum, and the beginning of Well, not the beginning, but the continuation of our sort of acc…”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 1:10
Disclosure
The New York Times plans to hire up to 400 product engineers
“But yeah, we're hiring a bunch, and I guess I mean, still in, in the scale of doing, like, product development, that's, it's, that's not a big number, or I guess just to a total of maybe 375 to 400 engineers working on the product.”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 2:41
Disclosure
The New York Times migrated almost all infrastructure to Google Cloud
“This is like the culmination of a long process that we'done to migrate almost everything we're doing to Google Cloud. I'm still a certain asset running at Amazon. So in general, we're doing all of our data processing on Google's data infrastructure now and mos…”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 12:53
Opinion
Rockwell calls BigQuery Google Cloud's most differentiated and unequaled feature
“Yeah, that, that, that was, and I would say still is the most differentiated element of GTP, and I think it's still unequal, at least in like cloud accessible mass you know, large scale available databases, that kind of thing.”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 14:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
The New York Times sees 150 million unique visitors per month
“We see a hundred and fifty million uniques in a month”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 15:44
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Cloud giants will turn backend open-source software into a corner case
“So I just think Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are, like, absolutely, like, moving far, far away from the pack in terms of their ability to create infrastructure software. So I feel like from now on it's like their game to write our databases and our message qu…”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 19:02
Opinion
AWS's instance-based business model forces customers to pay for unused capacity
“Amazon's core instance-based business model, which is basically predicated on selling me a lot of things that I barely use and forcing me to pay for them.”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 21:41
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Cloud competition will drive a tenfold increase in compute efficiency
“Provided there's sufficient competition between the cloud platforms, which I think there is, where it ought to drive, you know, a tenfold increase in efficiency and Compute, I would think, and you know, corresponding cost savings”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 22:00
Insight
Pursuing complete cloud portability leaves key features and value behind
“If you're trying to, like, be completely portable you're leaving a lot on the table.”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 27:05
Opinion
The NYT cannot build a viable business on third-party tech platforms
“We don't think it's a good delivery vehicle for our product, and we also don't think we can build a business in any of the platforms, really.”
Nick Rockwell Jan 17, 2019 ▶ 28:32
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