The Exchanges

Q Okay. So let me ask you just, what do you, how do you tease out a strong growth mindset or some ways?

A Well, good thing I'm not an operator anymore. Cause I'm gonna give away my interview questions. So no one can like cheat on this. So I feel like this is another reason why this is such a great time to do this podcast. Uh, the question I asked is, it's been the same one I've asked for years and you can really, you know, kind of suss it out from this, which is I, I asked them, Think about the, one of the biggest mistakes you've made, like truly the most, the more painful, the better and tell me what the mistake was described to me the situation and tell me actually how you actually think differently. Now work differently as a result. Like what, how has that turned into a core principle of yours, et cetera. And I give them a moment to think about it. Sometimes I even share some of my mistakes if need be. And, uh, It's interesting because, because I've asked this question so many times, I can smell the BS if they're not being authentic. Right. It's like, you know, kind of like, oh, I've worked too hard or I, you know, did this thing and they're really not being that. You can tell the vulnerability that people are willing to express. And I reciprocate with that because if they ask me what mine is, I will tell them what it is. Right. And then that's the vibe and then, but ends up happening. It's like, there's multiple. Reasons why this is really interesting. One, you get to get a sen…

AI assessment note: “The question I asked is... Think about the, one of the biggest mistakes you've made”

Q success worked at all these incredible companies, everything worked, but In reality, things don't often work out. Most people go through a lot of failed, uh, initiatives, projects, career, uh, hits. So the question is just, what's a product that you built and launched that was just a big failure. And I'll ask it the way you ask it. What's, how did that change the way you think and operate?

A You know, one, one example is, you know, since we're talking about Instagram before, um, you know, we try to build a kind of camera first app at Instagram. It was called bolt and it didn't work. And the great, you know, kind of levels of craft and design and the premise was essentially like, you know, can we make it so it's just reduces the pressure to share. Right. And you can open to a camera. You can, you can just kind of like send some things to folks. And you get some good feedback and you kind of, uh, go from there. And, uh, it was an obviously the Instagram design team. So it was top notch. Like the app was designed really well. It was really fast because of the Instagram, you know, engineering team, and they were just really good at making perform mobile apps, right? It had all of the advantages that we had talked about, uh, that we've revalued in Instagram, but we launched it and I believe it was New Zealand or Australia and it didn't work. Um, and I remember the, the reason we, we, we knew this is, is we're looking at sort of the, the retention graphs and retention is the key indicator in any product that you build. Uh, it's not the number of users, not the volume. It's actually retention and cohorted retention. You can, you can draw the, you can pop the line and, and if it asymptotes, then you're in a good spot. Um, because that means that people over, uh, X period o…

AI assessment note: “we try to build a kind of camera first app at Instagram. It was called bolt”

Q example. Basically it's like a database of connections, but what allowed an Instagram would allow them to be breakthrough. And there was, you know, classically competitors at the time, uh, was the experience was a lot better. And then maybe on the flip side, if the, if the experience doesn't matter, then it's the breakthroughs on the operations and other, does that resonate? Is that kind of what you're saying?

A It does resonate. I think, I think both have to be true, but I also, I would say that like, even if you did found a company that has a huge technological breakthrough, uh, very shortly, I think that, you know, kind of the, the, the product experience will start mattering, right? Because, you know, how long does that technological advantage last, right? Before humans wisen up to be like, well, this is not the product I want to use. I want to use it a little bit differently. And this is more ergonomic for me, et cetera. So I think, I think that That's what you said is, is, is a beautiful summary. I also think that a point in time in a company's history will also determine what is gonna be more important.

AI assessment note: “It does resonate. I think, I think both have to be true”

Q That begs the question, how do you actually do that? You know, a lot, you could talk about it. You could be like, okay, we need to make sure the experience is awesome, but also grow this number. Here's your goal. How do you operationalize that as like a performance review attribute thing? Is it culture or something else?

A As a leader, you have to set up your team the right way. You have to really think about your team as a product and what are the various pieces you need to really stretch the gamut. Of what you're, what you're thinking about. Um, and the teams that I've helped build are the most successful ones are a team of Avengers that are just like very different, have very different superpowers, but together you as the leader are the one who's helping adjudicate any differences or any, any disagreements, but you're, you know, you're getting the best outcome when everyone's pulling And obsessing over a different thing, right? And that's important. It's important to, to create your balance and, and really kind of increase the space that you're looking at and create those healthy debates. And I think a lot of people overlook that. I think some people think of, you know, people on a team as like warm bodies to do a job, but my philosophy has always been to think about, well, what is the, what does the company need to be successful and who's the best person who spikes at that one thing? And how do I make sure that that we get that person and how do we make sure we get the other person and the other person? It's almost like you're playing an RPG where everyone has different sliders and you have to create this super team where everyone actually spikes in different, in different ways. And that is s…

AI assessment note: “my philosophy has always been to think about, well, what does the company need”

Q What sort of startups are you looking for? Who should reach out if they're interested?

A Well, I, I appreciate that opportunity. Look for me. Um, I just, I think it's been very clear. Like I just love working with great people. Um, and, uh, you know, it's, it's for me, investing is just the ability to support, uh, more amazing founders. I've always been drawn to the founder archetype, right? Like working closely with Zuck or. You know, uh, with Travis or Howie, um, Brendan and Oculus, um, and, uh, you know, folks at OpenAI. I think there's this amazing sort of visionary person that I just, I love supporting in one way or another, and I've supported them from, uh, mainly from the inside as a product leader. But, uh, for me, it's just finding those amazing founders and in this current role, I get to work with many founders at the same time. Right. And, and just two days ago, I was on, Had meaningful calls, product jams with like three different founders in three different industries. And that kind of keeps my mind super alive. So, you know, that's, that's kind of why I'm doing what I'm doing now. And, and I, I would love to find some more of those, those amazing thought partners and people that I can just help out if I can.

AI assessment note: “I've always been drawn to the founder archetype... this amazing sort of visionary person”

Q Okay. So first of all, just how does that feel? Second of all, tell us something that you've been wanting to share that you can finally talk about.

A Well, it feels really good. So let me ask, I love it that you're starting with a spicy question here. Um, and, um, let me share some more context behind it. Um, it's, you know, I'm here to speak more freely, but it's not really what you think. I'm not here to divulge any secrets, uh, from the companies, but naturally I'm kind of a storyteller. I'm kind of an introvert. So this podcast, I feel like I have the ability to go deeper with you on, uh, any topic and kind of add the context, because I think the new, without Some of the context, some of my spicy takes or whatnot might be taken out of context and just not having the time pressure, not feeling like there's some, you know, PR message I have to hit is just really freeing. So it feels awesome. Really anything that is on your mind that you would find interesting to your, to your listeners, I'm here for it. And yeah, excited.

AI assessment note: “Well, it feels really good... I'm not here to divulge any secrets”