The Exchanges

Q I love this just strategy of following the workflow as a way to think about where to expand to. And then it's just a question. Where's the biggest market? What's the, what's the easiest next segment to get on board? I imagine not anything.

A I would, I would say, um, you can't constrain by always sorting, descending by Tam. We learned that very much from figment design. Uh, there is no reason, no data that we could look at that said there are You know, enough designers in the world for Figma design to be a big market. Uh, but, we got the trend right. And the number of designers rapidly increased. The number of people that care about design, because design is now the differentiator. It's how you win or lose. So, more people all the time in this world where the amount of software is increasing faster than ever. It's going vertical. Now we're in a world where design is how you win or lose, so then more people care to be part of the design process. That expands the market for Figma design, but I think you have to do what is right. You have to go from strength to strength, and um, you can't always just be obsessed with what's the next biggest TAM.

AI assessment note: “you can't constrain by always sorting, descending by Tam.”

Q I'm curious how your leadership style has evolved over the years. Uh, Vigma has been around for 13 years as, as we've been talking about. If you were to compare, say, Dylan 10 years ago to the Dylan of today, what would you say is most different?

A Uh, there's a lot of zero to one on management that I needed to learn, and I came in never having managed a team, and turns out again, let's call yourself a CEO. Uh, but I might have had some leadership skills. I think I had a lot to learn on the management side, and until Sho, um, started as first director of engineering, then he moved into product later. Uh, he's just a very multi-talented guy. But he taught me a ton about management, and this has been a repeated theme. You know, a lot of the people I've hired as leaders, I've learned so much from. But outside of that zero to one, um, where I just had a lot to kind of understand about how to manage folks, I think the, on the leadership side, it's the same lessons over and over again, and I keep learning them, uh, and then forgetting and worrying them again. And I think I get a little better every time, but Uh, one of them is just how do you unpack context? How do you get the context you've got in your head and like really unpack it for a group? Another is, um, how to make sure that you're showing up in a way that, um, folks know that we're all working for the same, working towards the same goal. And, uh, like I said, you know, I can definitely get into intense mode where I'm asking a lot of questions, but it's always from a place of like trying to understand or trying to, uh, figure out something together and making sure I sh…

AI assessment note: “there's a lot of zero to one on management that I needed to learn”

Q Any surprises from the past couple days? Anything that's like, oh wow, that went a lot better than I thought? Maybe less well.

A Um, yeah, I mean, like, you know, demo, uh, definitely things I would have improved, uh, but also, like, the, uh, Emil and Mohika were phenomenal, uh, and it was, it was just, like, so awesome to see them do their demos and, uh, present materials, and then, um, yeah, I was just really pleased with the conversation, I think, that's getting started at Config around AI, um, and, Uh, I think that, you know, I was looking online, um, on social media, and I think people are already kind of, like, zero in the right conversation, which is, okay, in a world of, you know, more software being created by AI, what does that mean? And, you know, the impact on, Craft, and the impact on quality, and the, ah, need to have more unique design, and how design is a differentiator, and I think some people are saying I agree with that, some people are saying that I disagree with that, and that's exactly the bounds of, um, what the conversation I kind of imagined would emerge, ah, from yesterday. Um, you know, it was funny, the make design feature, you know, we, anything I said on the keynote, I was like, This is gonna give you the most obvious thing in the most obvious form possible. And then people online are like, it's just gonna give you some obvious thing.

AI assessment note: “demo, uh, definitely things I would have improved, uh, but also, like”

Q Wow. That is such an incredible answer. So let me follow up here. One is just, is there some kind of taste test that you find of like, here's, okay, this person has great taste. And then your point is that you can develop this even if you don't start. So how, how, what's one tip for someone that wants to develop their taste?

A I think again, it's just, uh, the more you can expand your viewpoints by Looking at new things, like finding the cross correlations, the links between different areas and different fields, different, uh, mediums, the better. And I think then reflection on why creating framework for yourself, just building that internal, uh, curatorial ability is very important. Um, And I think, yeah, how do you, like, look at every expression of human creativity that you can be curious, learn, but then refine your own thinking, your own, uh, viewpoints. Be willing to revisit the ones you've had in the past. Uh, that's what leads to great taste. And there is something about judgment in there, too. You know, uh, implied in taste is that some things are good and some things are bad. So I think you have to be willing to lean into that yourself in terms of, uh, being high judgment. Then also, I think the best, you know, designers on the product side can turn on and off. They can go, I have my own taste. I know what I like. And then, okay, you're going for this. And that might be different than what I like, but I can match it. Brand as well. And, um, yeah, it's an entirely different conversation maybe about product design and how to build it too, but that's the more general answer maybe.

AI assessment note: “the more you can expand your viewpoints by Looking at new things”

Q Yeah, when we were talking about this idea earlier, the, like, the first thing you said is it's a responsibility, which I didn't expect. Is there anything more there? Just like, wow, I really have to help.

A Well, again, it's, you know, going back to the simplification, uh, point, you know, it's, it's, Very important that we continue to make Figma more and more simple. We make Figma as powerful as we can for the people that are in our community, ah, that we figure out what people's needs truly are, um, and that we advance the state of the craft and make it so that we do that in a responsible way, ah, And, and that we champion design, and, and champion quality. So, we're trying to do all those things. We sometimes mess up, but people have been very patient with us, and we're very thankful for that, and thankful for the support of just everyone, uh, here, and, uh, and in our community that, that are giving us a chance to, to make this impact.

AI assessment note: “we advance the state of the craft and make it so that we do that in a responsible way”

Q Adobe deal falling through. The journey you guys have taken to IPO is quite unusual. You almost sold the company to Adobe for a lot of money, and then the deal Work fell through. My understanding is it fell through because the UK government regulatory boards just didn't want it to happen. Is that, is that why it fell through? What's the, what's the story there by the way? Yeah.

A Various regulators did not like the deal and, uh, had arguments against it. No need to go into those and not, but, uh, uh, yeah, the, it was a long process, 16 months. Um, Adobe's an incredible company. A lot of respect for that team and very interesting to kind of You know, even in this constrained context where you can't, you know, plan out a roadmap or they can't give you instructions and stuff like that of here's what you should do or not do. Just seeing them kind of operate through the regulatory process even was, was fascinating. But yeah, it was intense and I'm really glad we kept our foot on the pedal, gas pedal, you know, and just, uh, kept accelerating forward rather than like grinding to a halt because we were able to kind of exit this deal that didn't work out and, um, Go into launching dev mode and really pushing on how do we expand our platform in a big way. And it's been, I think, just kind of like further acceleration of pace from there. I'm really proud of the team for how they handled that and also how they are being focused now. And it's, it's a real honor to be on this team.

AI assessment note: “Various regulators did not like the deal and, uh, had arguments against it. No need to go into those”