Jun 13, 2024 · 1h 22m · lennys-podcast
The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (Stanford)
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In this episode of Lenny's Podcast, Stanford Graduate School of Business professor Jeffrey Pfeffer breaks down the core principles of his renowned 'Paths to Power' curriculum, providing an empirical and actionable blueprint for overcoming internal resistance, mastering organizational politics, and accelerating career advancement.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Lenny holds 21.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Lenny as informed peer 3.9 Guest teaching 5.2 Guest disagreement 2.6 Lenny pushing back 1.3
speaking balance: gold is Lenny, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 59:45 Pfeffer dismantles the myth of a homeostatic world
Pfeffer forcefully rejects conventional moral expectations, insisting that life is not self-correcting and that people flock to power regardless of past transgressions.
Hardest push from Lenny ▶ 1:10:50 Lenny challenges Pfeffer on his own personal powerLenny playfully but directly asks Pfeffer why he has not become the most powerful man in the world if he knows all the rules of acquiring power.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:31 Pfeffer's knife analogy on power ethicsPfeffer corrects Lenny's discomfort around power by clarifying that power is merely an agnostic tool, comparing it to a surgeon's scalpel versus a mugger's knife.
Lenny holds their own ▶ 47:55 Lenny catalogs concrete nonverbal power tacticsLenny demonstrates thorough command of the research by systematically synthesizing behavioral power markers such as posture, speech rate, and vocal projection.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Lenny as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Lenny pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Understanding Power and Overcoming Moral Hesitations | 3 | 6 | 4 | 2 | Lenny admits personal discomfort regarding power dynamics and poses questions on why the topic creates moral friction. Pfeffer counters that moral squeamishness confuses tools with intent, delivering a sharp reframe using the analogy of a knife curing cancer versus robbing people. | |
| Sponsor: Accelerating UI Design with Uizard | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | This is a solo sponsor advertisement segment read by Lenny covering Uizard and Webflow. | |
| Suspending Judgment in Navigating Professional Politics | 4 | 6 | 3 | 1 | Lenny quotes Pfeffer's course syllabus about not being judgmental and asks why the course is explicitly not for everyone. Pfeffer explains the psychology of suspending judgment toward individuals on one's critical path to avoid interpersonal friction. | |
| Closing the Knowing-Doing Gap in Power Acquisition | 4 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Lenny enumerates the 7 rules of power from the book and brings up Pfeffer's concept of the knowing-doing gap. Pfeffer illustrates the concept through practical student assignments and Derek Kan's dramatic career progression. | |
| Rule 4: Building Visibility and a Personal Brand | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Lenny asks how to build a personal brand without feeling uncomfortable or superficial. Pfeffer explains the necessity of visibility alongside substance, illustrating with real-world examples from consulting and venture capital. | |
| Rule 1: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Self-Sabotage | 4 | 6 | 4 | 2 | Lenny probes whether worrying about being liked caps one's power potential. Pfeffer emphatically agrees, criticizing preemptory apologies and urging people to prioritize competence and results over popularity. | |
| Rule 2: Breaking Norms to Create Strategic Advantage | 4 | 5 | 3 | 1 | Lenny inquires why breaking rules generates leverage in business and career growth. Pfeffer highlights that rules favor incumbents and breaking them creates memorability, citing Jason Calacanis as a prime case study. | |
| Rule 5: Relentless Networking Grounded in Generosity | 5 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Lenny and Pfeffer discuss networking grounded in generosity and acting as a central broker. Pfeffer narrates Omid Kordestani's extreme networking strategy that led to becoming employee 11 at Google. | |
| Sponsor: Capturing Automated Product Analytics with Heap | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | After an ad read for Heap, Lenny asks Pfeffer to explain Mark Granovetter's research on the strength of weak ties in career progression. | |
| Rule 6: Mobilizing Power to Generate Momentum | 4 | 5 | 3 | 1 | Lenny brings up the self-reinforcing dynamic of mobilizing power. Pfeffer explains that utilizing authority and demonstrating early wins naturally attracts resources and followership. | |
| Rule 3: Mastering Nonverbal Signals and Projecting Power | 6 | 6 | 3 | 2 | Lenny lists specific nonverbal tactical behaviors like posture, voice volume, and gestures from Pfeffer's work. Pfeffer details how body language subconscious cues dominate audience perception, contrasting Tony Hayward and Lloyd Blankfein. | |
| Practical Exercises to Overcome Psychological Resistance to Power | 5 | 6 | 2 | 1 | Lenny connects Pfeffer's framework with Carol Robin's 15% comfort zone push. Pfeffer outlines the pedagogical stages students undergo from denial to acceptance through structured coaching and incremental practice. | |
| Rule 7: Why Success Excuses and Erases Transgressions | 3 | 7 | 4 | 2 | Lenny addresses the controversial rule that success excuses past transgressions. Pfeffer forcefully challenges the belief in a homeostatic or just world, pointing out how figures from Bill Gates to Martha Stewart have had misdeeds forgiven due to power. | |
| Case Study: Applying Power for Systemic Healthcare Reform | 5 | 6 | 3 | 1 | Lenny asks how well-intentioned leaders can embrace power without becoming toxic like Trump. Pfeffer tells the story of Dr. Laura Esserman, who learned to master power dynamics to push through systemic cancer screening reforms. | |
| The Strategic Dilemma: Choosing Between Power and Autonomy | 5 | 6 | 3 | 2 | Lenny jokingly challenges Pfeffer on why he himself isn't the most powerful man in the world. Pfeffer provides a profound trade-off answer citing James March: power comes at the direct expense of personal autonomy. | |
| Confronting the Personal and Family Toll of Power | 4 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Lenny asks whether the class teaches restraint against endless power pursuit. Pfeffer explains the lesson on the personal and familial costs of power, before closing with actionable advice on finding coaches. |
Statements from this episode (23)
Pfeffer: Research shows political skill correlates with higher salary and lower stress
“Gerald Ferris developed a scale of kind of political skill, and a bunch of, he and a bunch of his colleagues over the years did a lot of empirical research that demonstrates that political skill is associated with a lot of positive outcomes. Salary. Getting pr…”
Pfeffer: People confuse power as a tool with how it gets used
“I see people with hammers hitting other people on the head. That does not mean that a hammer is not a useful tool. You can take a screwdriver and stab it into somebody's belly. I have a very dear friend who we'll probably talk about later in the podcast. Laura…”
Pfeffer: Underrepresented groups will not succeed without power skills
“These are folks who will not succeed unless they learn power skills because the world is stacked against them in lots of ways.”
Pfeffer: Professionals must suspend judgment of colleagues on their critical path
“If I decide that Lenny is Whatever set of bad adjectives you want to use, dumb, incompetent, immoral, whatever. My ability to build a positive relationship with you and you are, you remain on my critical path becomes almost zero unless you're a better actor. I…”
Pfeffer: Successful executives master hiding their true opinions of colleagues
“And as I have taught senior executives over the years, it is absolutely clear to me that one of the skills that they have mastered is they have a skill that you cannot tell what they think of you. And that's important because I need your collaboration. I need …”
Pfeffer: Student became Romney's economic policy head for a class project
“And in 2012, his doing power project was to get appointed to be Mitt Romney's, it was Mitt Romney was running for president, to be head of economic policy for the Romney campaign. Believe it or not, he was offered the job. Believe it or not, he turned it down”
Pfeffer: Derek Kan managed the US budget six years post-MBA
“He wound up at the end of the Trump administration as the deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget. And since typical of the Trump administration, by that time there was no director, he essentially ran The six trillion dollar U.S. Budget. This is…”
Pfeffer: Keith Ferrazzi became Deloitte's first CMO via brand initiatives
“So my friend Keith Ferrazzi, when he started at Deloitte Consulting, did not do the spreadsheet stuff that he was, by the way, not very good at and didn't like. He started the Lincoln Quality Award. He decided to try to take Deloitte's Brand recognition from a…”
Pfeffer: Tristan Walker joined Foursquare by proactively signing Starbucks unprompted
“Tristan Walker, who wanted to get hired at Foursquare. You know, he sent emails to the founder, the find, the founder ignored him. So Tristan Walker did something I think very bold. Tristan Walker began signing up partnerships. So one day the founder says, hol…”
Pfeffer: Competence without visibility will not advance your career
“If you have visibility without substance, people will know you're like useless. But if you have substance without visibility, no one will know the substance that you've got.”
Pfeffer: Projecting self-doubt causes others to doubt your qualifications
“Don't think of yourself is not deserving of the job that you hold, because that attitude will leak out, and other people will say, you know, if Lenny doesn't think he deserves the job, then maybe I shouldn't think he deserves the job either.”
Pfeffer: Institutional rules exist primarily to protect entrenched incumbents
“The rules were made mostly by the people who are favored by the rules in place.”
Pfeffer: People overestimate how many requests it takes to get help
“So my colleague, Francis Flynn, Frank Flynn, wrote an article with Vanessa Lakin titled, if you need help, just ask. And it turns out people overestimate how many people they're going to have to ask to get help.”
Pfeffer: Jason Calacanis defies standard VC models with solo, high-volume bets
“There is a conventional wisdom in the venture capital industry which he defies almost completely. You know, he makes a lot of little bets, not a few big bets. He is he runs a very lean operation. He doesn't have a lot of partners. He doesn't have actually any …”
Pfeffer: Diverse weak ties provide non-redundant information unlike close networks
“The people to whom you are strongly tied, your family, your spouse, significant other, your friends, Your work, the people who work with you at work will probably, because they are close to you, know the same things and the same people that you do. So to the e…”
Pfeffer: Mobilizing power to deliver results compounds authority and resources
“So to the extent you mobilize your resources and get things to happen, You will get more resources. People, people want to be associated with success. To the extent that you become successful, more people will want to work with you. To the extent that you get …”
Pfeffer: Appearance and vocal tone matter far more than substantive content
“There is some evidence that suggests we respond mostly to how people look, secondarily to how they sound, and by far the least important to the content of what they say.”
Pfeffer: Regis McKenna transformed Steve Jobs from an incompetent presenter
“When Steve Jobs began, Steve Jobs couldn't convince you to buy water if you were dying of thirst. He could not give a presentation to save his life. And Regis McKenna and his team took Steve Jobs under their wing and created Steve Jobs, a man who could sell an…”
Pfeffer: Attaining power is a self-fulfilling dynamic that erases past transgressions
“Life is not homeostatic at all. That life is actually self-fulfillment. If I believe you're powerful, you will become more powerful. If I believe you have no power, you will wind up with almost no power. And that therefore, it is all forgotten and forgiven.”
Pfeffer: Bill Gates stole the original code that built Microsoft
“People forget that Bill Gates stole the code on which Microsoft has built.”
Pfeffer: Professionals can possess institutional power or personal autonomy, never both
“You can have power or you can have autonomy, but you cannot have both.”
Pfeffer: Trump only faced intense scrutiny after becoming president
“Donald Trump has done for 40 years what he's now being accused of doing. You know, the tax stuff, all this stuff. He's been a grifter all his life. But when you become president, people are going to look at things that in the past they would not have looked at…”
Pfeffer: High-Level Power Imposes a Heavy Price on Families
“What is it like to be the child? What is it like to be the significant other of these people? And you know the answer to that because you can see the suicides, the divorce rates. There is a price that not only you pay, but a price that your family pays.”