The Ledger

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Insight
Epling: Product leaders lose touch when acting as purely professional managers
“The more disconnected you get from those, like when you start to become more of like a professional manager, I'm just guiding the team, giving strategy and things. I think you lose a lot in making sure you're building the right thing for customers. Cause if yo…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 6:00 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Great companies do not necessarily require well-crafted product design
“Hey, I care a lot about product quality and building an experience that's like well-crafted and beautiful and usable and customers love it. And you don't necessarily have to do that to build a great company.”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 8:38 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: 80-page PRDs are outdated compared to prototypes and bullet points
“Can we just get some bullet points and, like, make a decision here versus, you know, it's some eighty-page PRD, which I just feel like is kind of, like, pretty outdated at this point. And at that point, I'd much rather just get, like, a V-zero or Figma make pr…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 22:31 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Habitual devil's advocacy is counterproductive on executive teams
“I think when it gets, when it feels like someone's just becoming devil's advocate, that becomes negative from my perspective, because it's just like, I'm just trying to find issues in everything and any plan you can find issues in, you know what I mean? So I t…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 24:49 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Unifying product and engineering leadership accelerates cross-functional trade-off decisions
“I think what you gain is a faster decision-making process. So when you want to go through and decide, hey, do we need to do this big technical re-architecture, and that's gonna trade off against some product features, you need to go through and, like, make tho…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 29:25 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Leaders at companies under thousands of employees must stay in details
“I think when you're still in the thousands, though, like, you should still be doing it, and I think that's part of our philosophy. Like, at Vanta, I think we really expect people to be in the details, and that's something that I believe a lot. Like, It's just …”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 36:31 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Non-technical PMs struggle to appreciate engineering pain and technical debt
“There's definitely product managers who I think they're, they don't know enough about the technical side, which can be fine, but like can't really appreciate the pain engineering is going through and like what on call is like because like they've never really …”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 1:00:36 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Engineering teams should target hitting 90% of dates to avoid sandbagging
“We ask people to write dates and commit to them. We expect us to be able to hitting, like, 90% of the dates, which I think is, like, reasonable. If it drops down to 85, I'm not worried. If it drops down to, like, 80 or 75, I start to get worried. Like, I want …”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 1:07:24 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: New CPOs mistakenly isolate in EPD instead of the C-suite
“I think when I got this role as my first chief product officer role, I talked to a bunch of my friends that were founders and I was like, Hey, what's the biggest mistake that I would likely make in this role? And they were like, you just focus on engineering p…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 9:35 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: CPOs spend more time with customers than executive go-to-market leaders
“A difference in the CPO role when how you think about the product versus some of the other team members is just, you're probably spending a lot more time with customers than some of the other people are like, we have amazing go-to-market leaders at GitHub, but…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 13:53 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Companies succeed by embracing conflict and viewing escalations positively
“I do think there's always a bit of, like, built-in tension, you know, in the system that I actually don't think is a bad thing. Like, I'm comfortable with conflict and things and thinks, like, companies are more successful and more comfortable they get with co…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 18:36 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Boards nitpick minor issues more when a startup performs well
“The board is, like, harsher when we're doing well, because there's, like, no real problem to, like, talk about, you know what I mean? So it'll be, like, pushing on all these, like, little things that, like, kind of matter, but not as much, but, like, If anythi…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 27:39 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Deep-tech companies need separate CTOs rather than unified EPD leadership
“If I had a company that required super, super deep technical expertise, I think that would be the case where I would be much more skeptical of having a single Person that has it all. And I would want a separate technology officer versus not.”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 30:42 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Senior leaders must label feedback levels to control executive megaphone
“He actually just puts, like, what level of feedback is in front of everything. Like, this is an idea, this is a suggestion, or, like, I expect you to take action on this. I think that's something I've learned from my team, that the, like, the more I've kind of…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 37:12 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Craft excellence and communicating with leadership are two separate skills
“I do think that being great at your job and being able to talk about it to like the leadership team are two different skills.”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 56:04 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
Insight
Epling: Sales engineering feedback loops are vital for technical product development
“When you're doing like a technical sale, like GitHub, you know, the SE team plays a huge part. Like AEs are critically important for setting up the relationship, navigating the org chart, doing all those pieces, but building that tight feedback loop of underst…”
Jeremy Epling Mar 19, 2026 ▶ 3:20 The product wisdom every CPO should ignore | Jeremy Epling (CPO, Vanta)
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